Ipenek..."if those responsible are not punished severely, we will be tricking into military plunder over and over again". So true. Those responsible for the US war in Iraq (Bush, Chaney, Rise, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Adelman, Faith, Haderly and the rest of the neo-conservatives) are to be put on trial for the war disaster they concocted on lies.

Great and courageous article. It says that we should look at ourselves and the situation honestly and bring to account those leaders responsible for the war. This is the only way to stop the next President (and it could be a Democrat,as we should have learned from our history?)is to impeach the President and Vice President and other prime movers of this aggressive war which was KNOWINGLY launched on the basis of lies and disinformation. There was NO FAILURE OF INTELLIGENCE!!!

It was a courageous article. I think many progressives long ago realized that we must lose the war to save America, and to save our souls (in a figurative sense, speaking as an agnostic), but to say it publicly is to invite a torrent of criticism and ridicule.

A successful armed robbery, involving the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocents, is nothing to feel good about.

I've read too few articles that this come close to the truth. The USA is disgraced. Its sense of morality is perverted. It is in a crisis greater the threat of terrorism, a crisis that threatens its Constitution. The neo-conservative political movement is fascist and its leaders are traitors. No good will come from excusing the Bush regime. There is no honorable recourse left but to impeach. The multi-generation Bush political dynasty must end in disgrace.

all the moral arguments aside, and i heartily agree with the above article,the 800-pound gorilla in the room that no one really seems to adequately address is Iraqi oil and our obsession with obtaining it (just think what the hundreds of billions spent on the war could have done for making us energy-independent!)

when the hydrocarbon bill is signed, which Iraq is now saying it will be, and soon, we will surely see the diminution of intent to stay the course -- the mission will then truly have been accomplished

the troops will come home, the mercenaries will stay to protect our oil companies, (largely off the myopic radar of mainstream media), the Army will give out medals to the fallen, politicians will give shallow speeches, everyone will keep driving, and the beat for American supremacy will go on

America is a fraud.

"We have no moral right to win this war" Powerful. Sad. True. The higher ground must be regained at a cost or so it seems. Pity the waste of youth on so sordid a campaign.

FOR AMERICA

As if I really didn't understand
That I was just another part of their plan
I went off looking for the promise
Believing in the Motherland
And from the comfort of a dreamer's bed
And the safety of my own head
I went on speaking of the future
While other people fought and bled
The kid I was when I first left home
Was looking for his freedom and a life of his own
But the freedom that he found wasn't quite as sweet
When the truth was known
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
It's in my blood and in my bones
By the dawn's early light
By all I know is right
We're going to reap what we have sown

As if freedom was a question of might
As if loyalty was black and white
You hear people say it all the time-
"My country wrong or right"
I want to know what that's got to do
With what it takes to find out what's true
With everyone from the President on down
Trying to keep it from you

The thing I wonder about the Dads and Moms
Who send their sons to the Vietnams
Will they really think their way of life
Has been protected as the next war comes?
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
Her shining dream plays in my mind
By the rockets red glare
A generation's blank stare
We better wake her up this time

The kid I was when I first left home
Was looking for his freedom and a life of his own
But the freedom that he found wasn't quite as sweet
When the truth was known
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
I can't let go till she comes around
Until the land of the free
Is awake and can see
And until her conscience has been found

Jackson Browne

The people who engaged in this war have already won. They have made their money. It's the innocent Iraqis and the American troops and their families that have lost.

There was no just cause, no imminent threat, no missiles to deliver mass destruction, no declaration of war, no intent to leave when the threat was eliminated, no intent to limit destruction or protect civilians, no just cause. Bu$h thinks he can create a new reality by giving new names to the ancient crimes of murder, torture and theft, defy 2000 years of war. He's a fool, as is almost the entire nation, especially the press. We've sunk to the level of Nazis.

Beautiful poem, stelablu67; thanks for posting. Thank you also Jackson Browne for your important message of hope and peace; you have been the voice of a generation now for many years. Great article, courageous, meaningful and achingly essential, yet depressingly sad.

Here is a bitter pill to swallow:

They don't care.
Like Albright said, it is all worth it to them.
Destroying a country- infrastructure, heritage, environment, with all the brutality and savagery that no words could capture-bombing them back to the stoneage--is a Zionist wet dream.

It is winning to them.

This is a great piece that says what many of us have been thinking all along. If anyone had any doubts or illusions about what the occupation of Iraq was all about, the exposure of torture at Abu Ghraib should have dispelled them.

Dechen: my understanding was that the hydrocarbon bill was stalled due to almost universal lack of support. I thought any Iraqi politician who voted for this was understood to be a candidate for assassination.

We're not losing a war. We're ending an occupation.

You are so right, ezeflyer! From the title of this excellent article through most of the comments, the word WAR is being repeated -- playing right into the Bushite frame of reference. Please, progressive commenters, refer to the tragic events in Iraq as an OCCUPATION, because that is what it's been since mid-2003. An occupation cannot be "won" or "lost" -- it can only be sustained, or ended.

No other article I have ever read on CD has nailed the essential difference between left and right politics in the US today. You might as well put a negative sign before it and call that the "position of the right". It's jarring to realize the nation is so polarized.

"A man must hate this government if he loves his country"

Friedrich Reck-Malleczewen

(A lawyer, diarist, ex-army officer and opponent of Hitler - killed in Dachau concentration camp early 1945)

ComancheJoe:
Thank you for good link. I am very happy too see so many people whom I think of as being Comrades-In-Thinking. And thinking is the most powerful weapon as it was proved again by Busheviks.

I support AdeleTheCzech; you do not call armed robbery war, for armed robbers will be insulted.

The good thing that may come out of imperial hubbris may begin the chain reaction of dismantling our military bases, the backbone of the Empire.

We have to aim high and stop supporting Democrats right away, unless they learn Lesson-2006. We have to wipe out Democratic incumbents not ready to kiss goodbue corporate interests. That will me program-minimum.

"Our obligation as citizens is not to play political games with the Democrats or Republicans to help them position themselves for the next election. Our obligation is to demand that the laws and ideals of this country be upheld."

IF WE DON'T "HIT THE STREETS" AS PROPOSED BY COL. ANN WRIGHT, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

We need an organization like Move-On.Org to get large numbers of people into gear.

I have some good news and some bad news. Human beings may not have free will. If that is true then US military officer have nothing to fear come the day of judgement if there ever is one. Now for the bad news for those officers if one of your childeren are ever found hacked to pieces in a forest because they got to close to a serial killer, do not take a day off work. Hey no crime was committed. It was just another day where a 2 legged wolf ate a 2 legged lamb. Do not look for any justice for yourself at anytime. EOM

There is victory, there is winning....this war was based on lies and deceit. We never won this Iraq, we merely accomplished the mission, confirmed no WMDs, and overthrew Sadaam along the way, if only somehow justify the whole horrid affair. The Country seems to have finally come to grips with reality, sift through lies and soundbites and want this to end. We can't lose what we never won, since the Iraq invasion was wrong from the start.

2nd point,
I have said it before and I will say it again for any of you newbes that have only recently joined the conversation. If the US were to win the war in Iraq it would just bring us one step closer to either a nuclear winter or an Orwellian nightmare as the neocons will attempt to attack Iran at some point in the future should Iraq ever become pacified. Hell, we are already sliding into an Orwellian nightmare because of your help. OK I can give a few of you a break, those who are spying for the Iranians or the Russians or the Cubans or the Venezualans. I do not know who you are but you do. That is all the counts. In war people are killed by friendly fire. I read this book one time about this guy who was shotdown over the Netherlands in 44. This one Dutch guy risked his lives many times to save this American. They made it out to this Island off the Dutch coast where they were to be picked up by a sub. For some reason the sub never showed. They ran out of food and water so they had to cross back over the mud flats at low tide or they would have died of thirst or hunger as they were weak the tide caught up with them but the Dutch guy managed to drag the American to shore. So, what happened to this Dutch guy. Well in the spring or 45 some other Dutch resistance fighters killed him because they thought that he was a double agent actually working for the Nazis. I think if they had known about he had gone through they would have had another opinion.
By the way I can be an arrogant son of a bitch too.
If you do not agree with my analysis of US foriegn policy your citizenship skills are so bad you do not deserve to have your genetic material passed on to further human generations. But that is kind of redundant because the fact that you are still serving on active duty shows that your citizenship skills are so bad you do not deserve to pass on your genes, unless of course you are a spy or are working to Valkanize your fellow officers.
Which brings up another point. Who has seen the film North Country? What can one learn from that film? Any guesses.

Oh, battle of Kursk. What can you learn from that.
The proper emplacement of a minefield perhaps?
Perhaps that Tanks need a MG on top of the turret?
Well how about that if your army is acting like the Nazi army in Yugoslavia you are allowed to act like the German officers that gave the Russians the German battle plans. They risked their lives.
Did they have something that you do not have?
Moral courage perhaps?
By the way did they have children too, did they have dreams for the future if they did not get caught? What did they think about the tens of thousand of German enlisted people that were going to die as a result of their bravery. If they had not betrayed the Nazis and their helpers would it have changed the outcome of the war? I think Germany would have still lost but one or two million more people might have died before it did.
Ahhh but what the hell we are all just sheep anyways right?

(contributors to this discussion appear the most enlightened of any reader reaction I've ever read) ......
As a 75 year old political science major from City College of New York, then under the expert tuteledge of Prof. Ivo Dukachek, ex-Czech Foreign Minister, who always understated the expectation of morality or "fair play" in International Relations no matter who the player,....I lean toward Dechen: IF INDEED there is the possibility that the Hydocarbon Bill denationalizing the oil to mainly US-GB petroleum companies for at least 30-year lease control is RAMMED THROUGH over the "resistance" of the puppet Malliki Gov. et al by the order of the Provisional Authority (THE U.S.) in June.....the
Occupation as we know it today may wind down somewhat, but the oil fields infrastructure , etc, north and south will be guarded and protected ad infinitum by mercenaries from private American firms as well as our military.Through "unilateral treaty" these armed forces will end up operating "legally" out of one to five of those permanently constructed bases already built.When was the last time (except for Vietnam, Subic Bay in the Phillipines or perhaps Nicaragua/ Dominican Republic) the US ever "totally" withdrew from a country it invaded?

For those who have never read it, I highly recommend Robert Shetterly's "Americans Who Tell the Truth", a coffee table style collection of great color portraits and quotes from a collage of great writers, thinkers, and activists mainly from the left/ libertarian end of the political spectrum. It is a wonderful gift for ages 6 through 18 which invites serious discussion between children and adults within a household about what citizenship really means, and what the struggle for justice throughout US history is really all about.

The above sincere, unsolicited review and wholly gratuitous commercial plug now completed, I toss in a couple of my own thoughts about Mr. Shetterly's excellent current essay offered to CommonDreams.

"The only good that will come from this disgraceful time in our history will be the honest acknowledgment of how and why the country was misled, followed by punishment for those responsible. Without that justice, we will learn nothing and be easy prey for the next abuse of power."

These words should be carved in stone and situated at the opposite end of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall in Washington DC, balancing off the soldiers' statuary.

Think about it.

Only two people were ever held personally accountable - where it counts, on their career job resumes - for the staggering racist criminality of the whole Vietnam War: Lyndon Johnson (who was forced to stand down from reelection by the grassroots revolt within his own political party) and Lt. William Calley (who served a period of what was essentially house arrest incarceration following court martial for his role in the Mai Lai massacre).

Beyond that, everybody else responsible of consequence with major blood on their hands - Robert McNamara, Melvin Laird, Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger, etc. - sailed off into a golden sunset, into an honored, well-financed retreat from public service in the private sector and later retirement, there to clip coupons, enjoy fat honorariums and write revisionist histories.

Beyond Lt. Calley and LBJ, no one responsible for the needless deaths of 2 to 3 million Asians and nearly 60,000 American soldiers was ever held politically or criminally responsible. Whatever "lessons of Vietnam" were rhetorically acknowledged, clearly there were no lessons learned.

When the Vietnam War finally ended, the peace movement people (like myself) largely heaved a great sigh of relief, put away our protest signs, and got on with our lives. The angered, disillusioned supporters of the southeast Asian debacle retreated into the military industrial infrastructure, the federal bureaucracy, and the right wing think tanks of academe, where they commiserated among themselves, blamed America's defeat on a stab in the back, and whined about how they'd been cheated out of their victory parade.

With no justice, no lesson's learned. That's why we all were such easy prey come 9/11.

Small wonder the Bush regime behaves like they think they can get away with murder. I mean, as we speak Paul Wolfowitz grins out from McNamara's old office suite at the World Bank and Rummy snoozes peacefully in New Mexico.

Second, Mr. Shatterly is absolutely correct to remind us that just as the initial decision to invade Iraq was a choice - an "immoral choice based in lies, propaganda and fear" - to perpetuate the military occupation of Iraq one day longer is also an act of will, the making of yet another existential moral choice.

What is eerie about this basic observation, however, is how recently it is more commonly invoked by the true believing supporters of Little George's grand Mesopotamian crusade.

To withdraw is to cause a bloodbath.

We owe the innocent citizenry of Iraq stability, a fair chance to enjoy the blessings of democracy before we depart.

Even if the original invasion decision really was illegal, immoral, and based entirely upon disinformation and lies, Americans now owe it to the the Iraqi people, to the world (and to our grand children and to our posterity) to persevere and ultimately make things right.

Otherwise, all those dead shall have died in vain.

Just war theory explicitly warns that what may in fact start out as a just war, can nonetheless be conducted in such a grotesquely immoral fashion that it ceases to be a just war, and participation in it thereafter becomes a mortal sin.

Is the reverse of this moral proposition true under just war theory?

If anything is indeed possible on the Road to Damascus, then why can't General Patraeus and Rudy Guilliani exhort the faithful on with promises of water turning into wine, Coke into Pepsi, always just a few benchmarks further on around the bend?

Bill from Saginaw

Gail said:

IF WE DON'T "HIT THE STREETS" AS PROPOSED BY COL. ANN WRIGHT, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

We need an organization like Move-On.Org to get large numbers of people into gear."

Gail: it's time to get moving on this. Who do you know that has the experience or contacts or will to do this? We need to enlist some heavy-hitters - maybe put together a coalition of groups. MoveOn is one more sellout-by-the-Dems event away from getting real feisty. Now we need a few charismatics to lead the fight and get some media coverage (yup, ya need it to get the masses into the street).

Does anyone out there know how to get to Iacocca, or Moore, or Jon Stewart, or Colbert, or Clooney? Someone needs to invite these people to a "critical mass" meeting, and light the fuse on this. Anyone out there have the means to start the ball rolling? Gonna need to bring in Hagel, Leahy, Gravel, Kuchinich, Feingold, and promise them a platform from which an independent candidate could actually win.

That's how this could work: access to millions of small-time donors, media experts, comic relief, star power, politically credible candidate, and an actual way to get these ideas onto the ballot without going thru the 2-party-system meat grinder.

Common Dreams, are you listening???

"We have to aim high and stop supporting Democrats right away, unless they learn Lesson-2006." - observer

I disagree. Strongly. I have often been dissapointed by the performance of the Dems in the past, and I would break open the champaigne to see the DLC collapse under its own hypocrisy.

However, we have not won nearly anything in terms of battles against the Republicans. Started or turned the tide, yes, but not won. This is not the time to "cleanse" the ranks of Democrats. I look forward to the day that Lieberman, Landreu, and all the other DLC milquetoasts are replaced by other, more populist Dems. Maybe after we take the WH and have sizable (over 60 Senate, over 270 House) majorities, maybe then.

I'm old enough to remember Nixon resigning in disgrace, and the backlash against Repubs. Only 6 years later we had Reagan in office, and things got worse (if not on the surface, certainly behind the scenes: tripling the National Debt, eliminating Fairness Doctrine, etc).

I hope the time comes to clean house within the Democratic ranks. But now is not yet that time.

Bill from Saginaw,
you stated the following in your post:Even if the original invasion decision really was illegal, immoral, and based entirely upon disinformation and lies, Americans now owe it to the the Iraqi people, to the world (and to our grand children and to our posterity) to persevere and ultimately make things right.

Otherwise, all those dead shall have died in vain.

I lived in the Middle East for three years. To say I understand the Arab mentality would be ludicrous however I did see what was going to happen with the U.S. pouring green troop with no understanding of the culture and commanded by men who didnt know a suni from a Shiite from a Kurd.
I will also say that this is a religious war at least for the Iraqis and it is not going to stop until one sect or another wins. To further confuse this mess is the oil the Kurd sit on-do they want to share it with Arabs-No. Will the Muslim sect that wins the civil war want the oil-yes.
WE need to get the hell out of there-yes it's too ban many U.S. lives have been lost in vain but that is no reason to throw more lives after those lost because we can't make it "right".

I surveyed some of the milblogs recently and got the impression that some of the soldiers serving in Iraq are "really into it", as they say. They seem to love the thrill of the War. It's very dangerous, but not so dangerous as to turn them off (like a Stalingrad). They don't seem to question what they're doing either morally or practically. They seem to be ensconced in their base camps drinking beer and eating pork (lots of it) and go on search and destroy missions outside their bases. Not much interaction with the Iraqi people except through violence. They don't seem to notice that what they're doing doesn't even make sense under the US Army's Counterinsurgency Manual. I mean to say, that the war, as they wage it, is not even the strategy outlined in the Manual for winning a counterinsurgency. They seem to resemble testosterone-inflamed high school kids chasing their tales and loving every minute of it.

Wars are not just founded on lies. They ARE lies: Every explosion, every death, every injury says "This is the price we pay for freedom"

Every dollar spent to line the pockets of the super rich came from the sweat of some over worked, underpaid taxpayer and says "Liberty must be bought with the blood of the patriots."

Today's PBS report about the slaughter of a civilian village by special forces says "If we don't defeat them here they will follow us home."

After Viet Nam I thought US citizens would never believe such lies again. I hate the lies more than the carnage. The lies are worse than the bloodlust described by ArbeiMachtFrei. The lies make all the rest of it possible.

We the people have already lost the war. The neocons are on the verge of winning. The people of Iraq will have to live with the consequences. Sadly, morality has nothing to do with it.

I think just the opposite. I am seeing more and more evidence of rising awareness, and anger against the Bush and Cheney in corners of the political spectrum I'd never have expected to see it.

I think our time is coming. The coming political crisis will provide a one-in-a-lifetime chance to actually change things. Band together. Find your allies, and make common plans to realize your common dreams. Your chance is coming.

Don't waste your chance by muttering fearfully in the corner.

George Bush is but a symptom of the disease that plagues America today. The rot began a long time ago.

Cheney, Bush, Rove and the others don't understand why their mission in Iraq cannot be accomplished, nor do they comprehend that they have been lured into this bankrupting war to deplete American power in favor of whoever opposes it; and despite the awful lesson of losing in Vietnam, they swallowed the Middle Eastern lure hook line and sinker. Now they are faced with intractable religious and nationalist fanaticism that cannot be intimidated, but draws in and recruits more and more, so their choices now are to expand the war into Iran and beyond, admit defeat and withdraw, or go on depleting American resources until bankruptcy finally puts an end to the "New American Century" , just as it put an end to the Soviet Union when it broke its financial back in Afghanistan.

It appears the choice will be to exapnd the war into Iran and beyond, rather than admit a mistake, Bush and Cheney would risk World War Three. Meanwhile, their self-defeating strategy stimulates the growth of thousands more of the terrorist legions. So, would impeachment come in time, or has Bush made his precious "Armageddon" inevitable?

OuterBeltway May 10th, 2007 6:37 pm

"Gail: it's time to get moving on this. Who do you know that has the experience or contacts or will to do this?"

There isn't anything I would like more than to hit a huge lottery and use the money to start a movement that gets people fired-up to hit the streets! As we have seen and experienced over many years, money can buy all the contacts one needs to achieve the goals of an ideological movement. Unfortunately, the neocon ideology is still in the lead.

It has been unbearably painful to read this article and the comments. It exposes how low America has sunk, exposed our leaders' attitudes toward torture, murder, avarice, despising anyone not of their own class and color. They lie with an attitude of complete impumity, thinking everyone else is an idiot and some lower life form. They have shamed our country. Our history is replete with shameful acts but we've also had shining moments. Not now.

I think this is why even Republicans are turning agaisnt Bush. Even when leaders were leading us astray, Americans did their best, gave their best and held their heads up. They can't hold their heads up now. We have a deranged sociopath in the White House and a cowardly Democratic Congress that won't fight for us. We are destroying a people who really liked us and never did anything to us because they have the misfortune to be sitting on oil that Bush wants and will kill anyone who gets in his way to get it. That's our President. That's what America looks like to the rest of the world now. I notice he's not talking anymore about being a uniter, or going humbly into the world, or not being a nation-builder. Now he's saying he doesn't have to listen to anyone or be accountable to anyone, and our laws don't apply to him.

We need to take our country back. There is a way to do that. Go to http://www.initiativesamendment.org/ and read what we can do. If we fight for our country and do the right thing we can hold our heads up again. And yes, I agree with just about everything posted here. We must make it right with the Iraqis. Not by staying but by getting out, with reparations, with supporting regional and UN assistance in any way the Iraqis want it, the way they want it. We owe them more than we can ever repay. There is no way we can make up for what we've done to them but at least we can stop doing it and do whatever they ask of us.

Drex -- It's unclear to me whether Bill from Saginaw didn't mean "there lives lost in vain", etc. as rhetorical counterpoint; he'll have to clear that up, if he returns.

"We didn't learn the lessons of Vietnam". No, but someone did: Reagan, Bush I and Clinton have been dipping our toes back into the scalding water for some time now. Bush I was wrong when he said that the Vietnam Syndrome had been broken but Bush II would have been wholly correct. Neocons were crafty enough to wait for the second Pearl Harbor before springing into action. Was it just dumb luck that it happened on Bush IInd's watch? No, of course, not...bin Laden wanted the Vietnam syndrome broken as much as the neocons.
But this is all absurd because there never was a "Vietnam Syndrome". Americans turned against Vietnam for the same reason they've turned against Iraq: we're losing. Do you seriously think, by and large, we wouldn't be celebrating if everything had gone brilliantly? I know this is a profoundly cynical stance, but do you?
Iraq and aftermath happened because our superpower military still hasn't matched the genius of Mao's stunning invention: guerilla warfare. They thought they had it: massive indiscriminate bombing. You just bomb the hell out of a country and the collapsing infrastructure will take everyone out, including the insurgents. Nixon was onto this one and even attempted it before the public halted it. The problem is you can never bomb a people out of existence. Some will always survive, and when they come out of their caves they're mad as hell, and they will grab the golden ring Mao provided.
Here is the real lesson out of all of this: once the gloves are off it doesn't matter who's right or wrong, instinct will take over; so you'd better be damn sure that you're taken into the fight on justified grounds. We were not; we were tricked into invasion, and if those responsible are not punished severely we will be tricking into military plunder over and over again. The US military is too bright and shiny a plaything for our old men to keep their hands off. Doesn't matter how non-"nation-building" they profess to be. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

As so many Americans only see in black & white, with no capacity for depth or subtlety, agreement to this article will be sure to brand me as an America hater, yet it perfectly reflects the anguish I feel.

I am saddened that the reason most of the public has lost patience with the war is simply because we are not "winning", as if our military was a football team incapable of winning the title. Very few Americans understand just how evil our actions have been. We have much to answer for.

Mr. Shetterly,
Once again, you have spoken the words right out of my heart. I have been thinking the same thing, as I receive e-mail notices from the Democrats this and the Democrats that, each putting forth this bill or that one, trying to meet this administration somewhere in the middle or close to it . . . they think. But it is like bargaining with the devil. What you say is true, we do have the moral responsibility to lose this war. We are sick of it, and although Bush says he won't pay attention to opinion polls to make "his" decision, those opinion polls represent hundreds of thousands of people, and we will not remain silent. What he is hearing may sound like a far-off rumbling to him, but it represents the shift in the American conciousness of tectonic plate porportions. So when the group of Republicans meet with him in the White House, purportedly to talk to him directly about what their constituents are saying, the majority of us are not buying it. We suspect a talking points agenda meeting. We suspect their intent is solely how do we stave off the Democratic push for popular support of their agenda. We the people are having none of that. We want the troops home now. No more stalling, no more promises of winning or succeeding in this war. We lost it before we went in. It is time to call it what it is and do it no more. Secret meetings? Top security matters? The dirty laundry is hanging out on the line for all the world to see. What is there to protect, but hidden motives; Bush and Co.'s hidden agenda of empire building. We know this and it is hidden no more. Bring our troops home must be the mantra, the prayer, the place where we draw the line for all elected officials.

"It is right in the heart of the oil region," she said. "It is directly in opposition to our interests, to the interests of regimes, to Israel's interests."
Hillary Clinton

After reading this article how can anyone without the most pronounced cognitive dissonance, in any way, advocate for the Democrats as any kind of alternative?
Hillary Clinton, pre-ordained recepient of the Bush-Clinton dynasy baton, recently pays lip service to condemning "big oil", but here we have it in this quote, the heart of the oil region--and Israel's interests.
Why is voting for her a shift away from the present course? The Clintons triangulated away the Democratic party as an alternative to the Right because, for them, having no core values or purpose, other than career politicians, it doesn't matter where you fall on the line between A and B, as long as you stay in the game.

Hell will freeze before I vote for Hillary. More of the same 'Feed the Rich' I do not want or need. This time, it is likely I'm voting the Green Party as their platform seems much more human and humane.

I just want to add a comment about one of the last things mentioned in this article.

Mr. Shetterly said: The destruction of a small village in Vietnam was once explained away by our military as a village that had to be destroyed in order to save it.
That perversity became symbolic of the entire war. Accurately.

Yes, indeed... but not quite so accurately. Ben Tre, the town he is speaking of, was a provincial capitol, hardly a small village. One single building was left standing, a building which the Vietnamese refuse to tear down, so as to have a reminder of that day. I've been to Ben Tre several times, and I am never less than shocked to think of the entire town being leveled.

This is something else we must remember about the Iraq war. The SCOPE of what's actually happening over there, and the decades of foetid legacy that are being sewn as a result. We read figures, simple numbers in the newspapers day after day after day, and it makes us numb and repulsed at the same time. But unless you are there, witnessing it with your own eyes, you can never truly understand what kind of evil is being produced over there.

The Vietnam "Conflict" and the war in Iraq have some striking similarities... and some frightening differences. I think everybody should remember that when we left Vietnam, we left behind a country with scarcely tapped resources, few sympathizers on a political level, and with a people that were far more interested in isolating themselves than they were chasing us across the world for revenge.

The Iraqis are backed by a growing movement of "Islamic" Extremists, and we'll be leaving behind a country full of vast fossil fuel deposits, and a growing will to come straight back at us and return to us what we brought to them.

It's time to get out. It's time to try to make reparations. It's time to stand up as a country, albeit with lowered head, and admit that we were wrong, and that we need to find a way to be forgiven for it. The alternatives are becoming quite too frightening to imagine.

'The problem is that we have no moral right to win it.' That is how a lot of us have felt about it from day one of the invasion! If we were to win it. It would be a crime against humanity! Mostly because we did not invade them for valid or even moral reasons. It was nothing on earth but pure greed on the Bush Administrations part that brought this war about. Whether we agree or disagree with the Iraqi way of governing themselves (Even Saddam Hussein was preferrable to what they have now). The fact still remains they have a right to their own style of government even if it isn't what we want for them! But, all Neocon's seem to have a hard time with this concept. My brother-in-laws son-in-law was over there for a while. His comment was 'you should see the terrible way they live' meaning their culture as a whole! He was abhorred with their belief system and everything about there way of living. He felt we need to be there to change the way they live! Needless to say my brother-in-law doesn't have any use for his son-in-law they don't communicate unless necessary.

We don't have to say we lost the war in Iraq. If it would make all the crazy people out there with their miss placed pride feel better then just say we won the war. I mean all of Bush's objectives have been completed, he proved there are no WMD, he caught and hung Saddam Hussein, and held free elections (at least in appearance) so it's mission accomplished, we won. Win, loose it doesn't matter lets just get the hell out of there. Stop funding the war today and bring the troops home tomorrow, the money we would save that is there to supply our troops into the summer could be applied to veterans' benefits they so dearly need.

What does Nixon's Vietnam and Bush's Iraq have in common? Cheney. Time for him to get a lesson!

Why do we allow corrupt individuals back into Government? The Iran Contra guys are back, Cheney is back, what the F*&k?

Time to get the Criminals OUT! If you can't pass a backround check you shouldn't be leading the Country. This is what we get for electing people, well sort of electing, who have CRIMINAL records!!! This is the first time in History that we have convicted CRIMINALS in the White House folks, what the F*** is going on?

Let's get Nader to run and get someone who CARES about the American people!

Making the world safe for "Western Style Democracy" Yeah right. More like imperial conquest for the corporate ruling class, pal. Lesson #1.Poor soldiers dying for rich white men's business interests and Zionist ambitions. You seem intent, Mr Marx, of finishing the job--which you seem to view within the framework that we have a job to finish. Our entire invasion is a war crime start to finish and more " ruthlessly meting out punishment" has hardly been a formula for any kind of success for a region of the world known as "the cradle of civilization" who didn't ask to be invaded by a country barely out of infancy- and doesn't appreciate occupiers ruthlessly meting out punishments. We are terrorizing them and accusing them of being the terrorist.

What do you people do, share the same friggin 3 brain cells? Bush isn't my favorite person, his globalism and failure on our own borders are two cases in point, but he did not lie to get us into Iraq. This is obvious to anyone capable of remembering more than 10 minutes into the past.

What a bunch of maroons.

The american army needs some Indians to pacify. They murdered all the Indians in the wild wild west. They are always trying to save other nations from themselves. Now, the Iraqis are america's indians. If they dont let us pacify them Bush will never leave. They should just throw their hands up in the air and say, " we give! we give!" "for god sakes" we give up! now leave us alone and get out!

While this is an eloquent summary of events, the core problem is not addressed - the American Religion, which is not worship of God but worship of the Military. As long as every sporting event begins with "bombs bursting in air" and the TV camera pans in on men in fancy uniforms holding the flag, as long as people get more choked up when they hear the Marines Hymn than they do when they hear any Christian hymn, as long as entire towns in the South are dependent on miltary bases to survive, the US will continue to start wars and then clean up afterward. George Orwell described an economy in which half the workers were employed by the government to dig a hole in the ground and the other half were employed to fill it up again - resulting in a booming economy. So too the USA is doomed to continually start wars and clean up after them. Wall Street loves it. Eisenhower saw through it, but nobody wants to listen as they go to the bank.

I wish this article can be distributed every American homes to be red by everybody.
And for Bush,Cheney,Rice and Rumsfeld psychiatry's should be allowed to hypnotised them by reading this article.
Sir,You are a real American and we all like your type of American can lead this powerful nation and perhaps then God Will Bless America.

I respect & salute you and this I don't say very easily.