Sy Hersh has told us that this is the most brutal and violent military we have ever raised.

When Rumsfeld loosed the dogs of torture he took any wall of conscience out of our treatment of prisoners and we can only presume that he has tried to do the same, in general, with all of our military.

We have already killed 655,000 Iraqi civilians --
how many more to do we have to kill to make Bush and the neo-cons feel safe?

This is the Bush way of winning harts and minds? He sure knows how to do it, now doesn't he!
This is what happens when you lie. This is what happens when we send children to kill children. This is what happens when no one wants to admit they made a mistake. This is the fools who think they can kill just to kill and then tell you, you cannot control your own body without their permission, but hey, we can kill Iraqis just because. Iraq had nothing to do with 911, but hey, someone has to pay, right? The Karma these guys are collecting will do them in, but no soon enough. Has everyone had enough revenge, yet?

What did everybody expect would happen when we give kids on Ritalin automatic weapons?

I can already hear Hannity blaming the French press for "emboldening the enemy." I presume he's talking about himself being emboldened, right?

What can you expect from mercenaries?

Stan Goff, really knew way before the invasion what this would look like. Everything he predicted came true. He told us but we weren't ready to listen.

When all the soldiers fighting for us return we NEED TO WELCOME THEM BACK TO SOCIETY! Honestly, it's not their fault.

I don't mean handouts or sympathy, but acceptance as one of us. They need something to do to keep giving the way they are giving now. The reason they joined was to give to society, and I don't think we should take that away from them.

War crimes are war crimes and people need to be held accountable for their actions and that starts right from the top down!

Please Read!

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/111703D.shtml

Are you still crying? I'm a tough SOB but I couldn't fight back tears when I just read it again.

Anybody on the Internet would of read this if they wanted to hear both sides, along with Scott Ritter and so many others!

Thanks NMBill.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/111703D.shtml is a good history lesson espeically about the pre U.S. troop invasion years in Iraq.

Thanks, also. NMBill. I had always susp[ected this was true. The oil cartel in this country is in charge.

Most of these kids have no idea what they're doing over there. It's an insane war, so naturally they're doing insane things. I have sympathy for them, although I don't really think most of them joined to give to society NMBill--more for the bonuses, college $$ etc. If more of them would speak out about the atrocities, perhaps the public would pay attention.

The most chilling statement was that the Marines were following "established war-time rules of engagement".

Using surrendering Iraqis for target practice is not that unusual -- happened in Fallujah and elswhere. Yes, the soldiers were stirred up with bigotry, hatred and misinformation but they are still responsible for their actions and are not innocent victims. Those who have comitted heinous crimes will have to live with what they've done for the rest of their lives.
Those who trained them and unleashed them on Iraq are ultimately the worst criminals and must be brought to justice. Maybe they should be turned over to whatever government the Iraqis form when we leave. True justice should come from those who suffered the injustice.

As a Marine combat veteran of the war in Viet Nam, I know what it's like to occupy a country when you can't tell the difference between 'friendlies' and the enemy. Tossing in a racial difference and an utterly strange and unknown foreign culture, only serve to further alienate the average soldier from the civilian population. Iraq is a classic example, for any student of military history, of what happens during a prolonged, aggressive occupation of a country, the citizens of which view the occupiers as, at best, dangerous, heavily-armed goons, and, at worst, evil, ravaging invaders who must be killed at whatever hazard.
The day Sadam's army gave up, the WAR was over; the next day the Occupation began; about a week after that, the Insurrection (i.e., guerrilla warfare) got under way. From that day forward, our troops were screwed, given the impossible task of enforcing 'order' without getting killed or maimed, while surrounded by unknowable numbers of invisible enemy combatants, killers who use civilian noncombatants as their shield, their 'cloak of invisibility'. There is simply no finer recipe for war crimes that I know about.
It doesn't take long before the 'grunts', the men and women at the close edge of danger begin losing the ability and even the desire to discriminate between who wants you dead, and who just hates you.
As a Marine combat veteran, I am sickened by any murder committed by another member of the Corps, but I shy away from simple, self-righteous condemnation. Anyone who hasn't had to clean up a friends guts, with no enemy in sight on which to vent the resulting rage, should think long and hard about what that must be like. It twists a soldier's heart and mind and turns them into someone they truly are not.
The British learned this lesson in Northern Ireland. The Wehrmacht learned it in the Ukraine. The French learned it in Indochina. We should have learned it in Viet Nam. In fact, many of us did, but not King George or Prince Cheney. They were too busy feathering their nests for anything as selfless as really serving their country.

So we have arrogant pantywaists smugly sending our soldiers into the hopeless hell of guerrilla warfare.
I think the appropriate emotion toward Marines and soldiers who snap and kill civilians is pity.
We should save our outrage for the cowards who sentenced them to doing time in hell. I'll bet you my next paycheck that they weren't murderers before they got there. And that it didn't feel like murder when they did it. It probably felt like payback.
When 'everyone' is the enemy (or so you must assume to survive), then revenge can be taken on the next warm 'foreign' body that falls into your sights.

Indeed, such is madness, but 'madness' is a good working definition for guerrilla war.
Thus, it is the war that is the true criminal, but it is always individual men and women, of whatever nationality, who must pay the price for it.

Being a Vietnam vet These kid's had seen thier friend's murdered, more than likly out of thier minds with anger and sadness did somthing that none of you can under stand, they took the lives of men that looked like or maybe even did the deed,how meany of you have been throw anything like that.They are nothing more than kid's, put in the worst posible place you can think of, do you really know what you would do?Do we imprison them or do we get them the help they most definitly need?

What do you all think about America adopting some form of compulsory National Service, like in Singapore, Thailand, Switzerland, etc.?

I think it is important to have the objectors directly involved and represented in order to keep things in check. "Fair and Balanced"

(Peace corps could count for National Service too)

When do the new Nuremberg Trials start?

The Viet. vets. seem to think what they did justifies doing it in Iraq. Vietnam was completly wrong and so is Iraq attack.
And by the way I spent 4 years in military, 1951-1955.

So I hope Bush and his bums don't ask the asinine question: "Why do they hate us?".

An occupation is a lot different than a war.

Highly stressful, and as the vets say above, you don't know who will shoot next. Could be the little kid. This thing is lasting longer than WWII or Korean war.

As Stan said we have been bombing Iraq since 1991. 20 year olds know nothing but fear their whole life. Every time they hear a jet they think could this one be for me? This is no way to live and grow up normal.

If you think the official military has done some bad things - wait until a fraction of the truth about our spies and mercenaries comes out.

Calling them contractors is about as Orwellian as you can get.

If there were a national service it would be a good thing.When it comes to war everyone with a young person old enough to go,mothers,fathers,grandparents,ants,uncles,brothers,sisters,cousins,would all be out in the street holding a sign saying stop this illegal war.But in this war there is a very small number of us that have anyone involved in this war.Doesn't that show how little we really care about our fellow man,just as long as it doesn't effect me right?

I totally agree. Our nation is too detached from the war as it is...

It's pretty sickening that people would rather protest sending Paris Hilton to jail for 45 days, than to even think about the current state of the union...

I'm just glad that there will always be some people out there who are concerned about current events.