Helix,

When I said you were a "spell" my intent was to express frustration with what seems to be such a prevailing defeatist and fatalistic way of thinking.

Sometimes I think things can be self-fulfilling, and therefore, I recognize it is imperative that we all start trying to have a positive attitude because -- I think we all know -- big changes are on the way.

I might be sounding like a salesman, but I think these changes are an OPPORTUNITY. Sure it will require unprecendented cooperation, but hey, that might be a good things that leads to other good things. You know what I mean. At a minimum, at least I have a positive attitude and I'm trying to share it.

Ken Hausle
a.k.a. "buffalo_ken"

buffalo_ken,

Actually, I asked if being "a spell" was good or bad because I wasn't familiar with that use of the term.

I care because, even though I am powerless to stop the train wreck, I at least want to get out of its path. And I may even be able to help in the rescue and cleanup operations ;).

How many of you that sit out there telling armybrat to "take a prozac" have actually been out there talking to fellow workers, friends and relatives? My experience in talking to all these people is that armybrat is right, the U.S. electorate is an ambivalent mass of political idiots on the whole. Sure if you just read these leftie websites you get the feeling of outrage at our loss of liberties etc. but thats not what the general populace thinks.
General Odom's words will get lost on a dusty audio-file shelf along with all the rest that criticized the war

Thankyou (RichM April 28th, 2007 8:07 pm) for your post.

"And why after all his good points would Odom stoop to talking about "respecting" Bush's "courage?""

I think the 'Commander In Chief' needs to learn how to listen to a few Indians for a change. Then again, the 'playboy flyboy' has little military experience or training, so we shouldn't expect much from this faux-soldier.

1) He never was an ROTC, or even NJROTC, student;
2) Never attended OCS;
3) Never came up through the enlisted ranks;
4) Never attended one of the service academies;
5) So how did he even gain officer status?

And there's more:

6) Although eligible dodged service in Viet Nam (like Cheney);
7) Jumped in front of 500 men waiting to join Air Nat. Guard;
8) Then only served 22 months of a 6 year enlistment;
9) Was an unruly drunken lout, but got his record sealed.

His "Mission Accomplished" claim was as if FDR had claimed complete victory over the Japanese after Gen. Doolittle's Tokyo raid in 1942. FDR knew better and Bush should have, too. Arrogance & bragaddicio don't equate courage, just self-delusion.

As to your comments: DustinColb April 29th, 2007 9:59 am

It's obvious you are a 'late comer' to the facts concerning our past two STOLEN presidential elections. I would suggest you Google a copy of the Rolling Stone article by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Then come back and tell US that WE are at fault because WE elected him. I dare you to become better informed on the true situation, but once you understand then please pass the article onward, OK?

As for: seditious April 29th, 2007 4:48 pm

You are absolutely right (excuse me...correct). The pickle we are in was cooked up a long time ago. I've read a number of your posts and can appreciate the frustration of an informed patriotic citizen. One thing I agree completely with is this savage errant rabid dog must be whipped continuously until it leaves OUR (We the People's) yard.

To: Earthian April 29th, 2007 7:29 pm
Oops. Odom not "Odum." Sorry for the mispelling.

No biggie, Earthian. I think after your excellent post a typo is excusable. What I didn't like was a defeatist attitude in the couple posts prior to yours (DustinColb April 29th, 2007 6:53 pm & armybrat April 29th, 2007 6:56 pm ). If you both feel 'all is lost' then just lie down and let the steamroller roll right over you. By the mere fact you are taking the time to research what has been going on, then taking more time to post here, it is obvious you both don't buy the notion of, "Boo, hoo, all is lost!"

Personally, I don't buy it, and I have reasons. Although this administration is the most insidious we have encountered in my lifetime (disclosure---I'm a youthful 59), the Johnson/Nixon years also have a case to be made as un-Constitutional ones controlled by warmongerers. That was a bigger war, too, yet with the concerted efforts of people who refused to be silenced, the war ended, and a number of meglomaniacal people booted out of government. A number went to jail, but others escaped the asylum caretakers' nets (Rummy, Cheney, etc.). This is historically a generations long struggle. One thing you have to understand is Bushies are controlled every bit as much as they are trying to control us (see: http://www.physics911.net/nuclearfalseflag)It's a rather long read, but to understand how we got to where we are now it behooves all of us to take the time.

Helix - I join you in feeling marginalized. Hard to be optimistic in these times. In the very long run the earth will survive, healing itself with an Ice Age or asteroid hit. The dinosaurs ruled the planet orders of magnitude longer than man, who thinks so much in the short term (How'd the market do today?), yet they survive only as birds. Even the seemingly dwindling few who believe in science and evolution somehow see themselves as its culmination, rather than another transient stepping stone. The Religious-leaning believe in no god but their own, failing to see that Ra, Zeus, Loki, ad infinitum were all gods once, but now have no followers; thus too will today's gods pass.

The news is bad for us with our short attention spans, but eventually corrections will kick in and the universe will move ahead. Humanity is possibly just an evolutionary dead end; certainly the ascendency of the Reagan/Bush axis at home and the jihadists abroad points to that conclusion.

Here is a link that was provided by "PJD" today on another thread that seems pertinent. It is an essay on socialism written by Albert Einstein and originally published in the first issue of Monthly Review in 1949.

http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einst.htm

Best to all,
buffalo_ken

Helix - I don't mean to be flippant, but I'm a bit surprised you want to know "is that good or bad?". I can't help wondering why do you even care if you think the "train wreck" has already happened and that "we will never fully recover"?

If you really believe what you are saying, there is not much I can do other than perhaps suggest you go out and "live it up" while you still can.

Peace,
buffalo_ken

Odom: The challenge we face today is not how to win in Iraq; it is how to recover from a strategic mistake: invading Iraq in the first place. The war could never have served American interests.

"But it has served Iran's interest... It has also served al Qaeda's interests

"We cannot 'win' a war that serves our enemies interests and not our own. Thus continuing to pursue the illusion of victory in Iraq makes no sense.

i think this war also served israel's interest (yes, big taboo). and for them it was a simple matter of destroying iraq, whether a shining example of democracy and capitalism was set up or not.
but i wonder whether this was not also the objective of some US supporters of war, maybe cheney (bush is too ognorant to have had ideas). just destruction was good enough, but a destruction that happened more quickly and that let us set up a nice puppet government quickly.
anybody who watched israel and the US work together in the demolition of lebanon last summer can't think that either of these countries is above simple destruction with no other "highmeinded" plans.

wcdevins,

Re: We've got to make better choices all around or we all end up being led by fools selected by fools, just like these last 6 long years.

Struth!

But what are the chances? Corporate American owns the government, the electoral machinery, the military, and the media. The Christian right regularly vets the textbooks used in US classrooms, and has padded school boards to the extent that evolution is still considered controversial in many states. By the time a citizen is old enough to pull a lever, they have been conditioned by TV, indoctrinated by schooling, and manipulated into a position of "cooperate or you won't get fed" by corporate America.

In other words, what we've been seeing for the last 6 years is hardly surprising. Indeed, it's the end result of nearly three decades of diligent effort by the kingmakers. It would be surprising if it had turned out any differently.

buffalo_ken, Re Helix, you are a spell.

Is that good or bad?

Helix and provoice,

If Bush and Pat Robertson get their way, Mankind's history will end in biblical "Armageddon."

Helix, you are a spell.

buffalo_ken

Earthian: Good call on the Constitution.

provoice,

Re: Bush will go down in history as a bumbling fool… along with everyone who believed in him.

I agree with Siouxrose. I'm not sure we're going to get off that easily. IMO, most people have still not recognized the magnitude of the catastrophe that Bush & Co. have unleashed. We may not have even begun to experience the true horror that this epic disaster will eventually visit on us when the chickens come home to roost. At the same time, we are paralyzed form taking action on other pressing issues.

GWB a bumbling fool? No. He will be remembered as the man who destroyed not only America but also the American ideal. He has ushered in an age of unbridled greed, corruption, violence, and callousness. We are now in a slow motion train wreck where the locomotive has jumped the track and is plunging into the ditch, with the rest of cars soon to follow. As with all train wrecks, it takes a long time for the wreckage to come to a stop, and everything in its path is destroyed.

We will never fully recover from this disaster. Think "New Orleans".

See, I'm a fool to. "They are what theY are".

Hey wcdevins - you don't want it both ways do ya?

Seriously, who gives a fart what people are called. They are what the are.

But I agreee so much, we need to foster some learning for everyone. This is simple and just about EVERYONE can figure this out.

Add me to the list of fools - should be "Hard not to AGREE with armybrat..." then my tirade.

Hard not to disagree with armybrat on this one. Call the 50% who voted for Bush TWICE fools, confounded, dupes, lazy, patsies, whatever, they have handed us this problem. In a nation where a mainstream Republican should not be able to get elected dogcatcher, because even mainstream Republican policies do not favor anywhere near a majority of Americans, Bush was given enough votes to allow Republican/supreme court shenanigans to kick in to his advantage. When almost 50% of voters could not see how mentally deficient W was compared to Al Gore in 2000, when more than 50% of voters, given the proof of 4 years of abject failure, could pull Bush's lever AGAIN, we have to deduce that the voters of this country are, at the very least, woefully uneducated. (And my neighbors are just as bad as armybrat's - I had one in my local paper writing a letter to the editor about Joe Wilson's "lies" last week!)

To solve this problem, we need an educated electorate, one that can think on its feet without the crutch of political propaganda or religious dogma. If we spent a little money on education as opposed to war, we'd all eventually be better off. But an educated, self-motivated electorate is anathema to Republican propagandists, and most Dems are not far much better. We've got to make better choices all around or we all end up being led by fools selected by fools, just like these last 6 long years.

President Bush is going to veto the bill because he is under the influence of Vice President Cheney, an inflexible corporate imperialist who believes his own lies, and Pat Robertson, a right-wing Christian fanatic who believes that biblical "Armageddon" is an event to be encouraged and welcomed. Thus, Bush is committed to "winning" in the Middle East even if that requires an attack on Iran and the other nations in his "Axis of Evil" - and if World War Three is the result, then his Armageddon is achieved. This suicidal madness can and must be stopped by the impeachment of both Bush and Cheney, now while there is still time.

As far as mainstream media is concerned, one only had to watch Bill Moyers' typically brilliant documentary last week on PBS about the selling of the war by our so-called free press, in complicity with The White House communications machine. Even though it confimed my own long-held beliefs about the corporate politicization of the TV and print media, it still made me ill. It also highlighted the fact that leading members of Congress at the time who voted to authorize the war in Oct, 2002 (read Hillary), and now claim ignorance of the trumped up intelligence, could simply have read the Knight/Ridder stuff that sharply challenged the White House on WMD and the nuclear weapons threat.

They somehow failed to do so, as if they or their staffs didn't know Knight/Ridder existed, or that thousands of anti-war activists were trying through emails, demonstrations, phone calls, and lobbying to bring that contrarian but solid reporting to the attention of Congress during that period before the vote.

They chose rather to swallow whole the likes of the Judith Miller fairytales being churned out by the NY Times, or the WaPo cascade of pro-war editorials, or any other high-profile pro-war reportage that fit with their own pernicious voting interests--the idea that Senators vote their "conscience" or "principles" on matters of war is as big a myth as the existence of WMD in Iraq...they vote the interests of corporate lobbyists and constituents, who put them in the Senate with big bucks, which in this case meant billions to be made off the (fantasy) "reconstruction" (rape) of Iraq and its oil delivery systems after the (presumed) brief and decisive "Shock and Awe" signaled a quick (pipe dream) victory--rather than with the facts on the ground and in Washington, being diligently reported every day by Knight/Ridder. "If I knew then what I know now..."...my ass.

As cogent as Odom is, his point of view has been expressed numerous times before, most recently by the straight-talking former general Tony Zinni on "Meet the Press" and elsewhere. These guys have been increasingly pointing out the folly of Bush and his war, but so far, we're still headed over the cliff.

In my view, Bush is pathological...in his own way, as dangerous to the resolution of this war, and general stability in the Middle East, as a suicide bomber in a pizza parlor full of moms and kids. Somehow, he has to be re-directed or neutered ASAP. How?

Thunder Preacher said, "Now who has really been AWOL!?"

And I have to agree. It is "we the people" who have been AWOL. Where are the "citizens" in all of this? Many were and many still are part of the cheerleading section, ignorantly pounding the drums for continued war and occupation and waving flags. Onward with empire!

One by one since 2000, in every now politicized department of government, and in all aspects of our separation of powers, in our the dismantling of our partaking in the international rule of law and in the stripping of goverment of its duty to the people, the privatization of all parts of our government and military to the pirates of profit, our nation is being defrocked of any pretense of having democratic institutions or a leader for democracy, a leader of the free world.

Where are the tumbrils overturned in the streets? Where are the hundreds of thousands citizens demanding the taking back our our government and turning the beast back toward real democracy?

Muching cheeseburgers, watching reality tv, out to lunch and oblivious to history and to the looming precipice in our path.

France was right after all

Thank you General Odom. You probably know that in the 4th century B.C. Greek general Chabrias said:

"An army of stags led by a lion is more to be feared
than an army of lions led by a stag."

You probably also know that Speaker Pelosi would become the leader of the free world should we impeach our current 'leaders.'

Peace,
Len Zimm, US Navy 1945 - 48

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

...that domestic word seems kind of vague, doesn't it?...

"...that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

...so what if the President is a domestic enemy, threatening our country, and the Constitution of the United States of America, do you still obey his orders? Or, as a member of our military, is it your DUTY to defend our country from his destructive behavior?

This confusion, I think, leads to the embarrassing kind of situation where we find so many of our fine soldiers and military leaders discovering true courage and patriotism once their pensions are secure.

The Oath, revised for brevity, should simply read: "I'll do whatever my higher-ups tell me to." I know this wasn't very popular at Nuremburg, but it seems times have changed.

Enjoy your retirement, sir. On behalf of the marginalized, I welcome you.

armybrat,

All I said is disparaging name calling doesn't help. If you think half the population are fools then they WILL BE to YOU and this makes it harder to find solutions. In fact, it tends to feed on itself and becomes almost self-fulfilling in one's thought process.

Instead of calling them fools which somehow suggest "you have some superior insight", perhaps you should refer to them as "confounding" because you don't understand why they behave the way they do. Maybe you should try to understand, and then, if you still think they ought to change, you will be in a better position to make this happen. I'm not trying to preach here, but you did ask for another word to call these folks.

I don't care for the current state of affairs, but I choose to have an underlying faith in the ability of people to behave synergistically if the opportunity is presented. I also choose not to give up. I think there are some basic human attributes and desires that we all share. Lets start with these commonalities and try to figure out a way to move forward that is beneficial for others in our own communities and everyone in general. Check out my website if you want to see how I am trying to do this myself (kjh-es.com).

I also think that impeachment proceedings (see HR 333) need to commence and there needs to be a fair and public hearing about what has transpired in the past six years or so and who was responsible for the grave actions that have been taken which have resulted in much needless suffering for many innocent people. Last I read the sentiment of the preponderance of people in this country is that "we are on the wrong track", so I disagree with others who say "impeachment will never happen" -- I suppose it never will if too many think it never will, but I am trying my best to pursuade my friends and family to give it serious consideration. I wouldn't be surprised if unforseen events help propel the impeachment resolution into a greater likelihood. You can call me a fool if you want, but don't expect me to listen to you if you do.

Lastly, I want to repeat that "if you are bitter, it's tough for things to get better". Ya know?

Ken

Oops. Odom not "Odum." Sorry for the mispelling.

On pragmatic grounds, Odum questions the president. As far as it goes, that is good. But this site is the "home of the progressive community." As far as I know, Lt. Watada is the only progressive officer in the US military who has acted on his progressive worldvew in public. Watada refused to serve in a war that he called "illegal" and "immoral." Nowhere does Odum refer to the illegality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Nowhere does he call for war crimes trials. Nowhere does he call for reparations to Iraqis.

I suspect most CommonDreams readers now know that Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter forbids the use of force against another country absent UNSC approval or (through Article 51) a response to an immediate threat of invasion. And most know by now that ratified treaties are "binding federal law" as Justice Kennedy said with the majority in Hamden v. Rumsfeld. That's because the Constitution says that "treaties made" are the "supreme law of the land" in Article 6 (2) of the US Constitution.

So while Odum speaks out against Bush, he is not progressive. He speaks from a practical, not a progressive worldview.

Former prosecutor at Nuremberg, Ben Ferencz, says that Bush should be tried for war crimes for attacking Iraq. THAT is a progressive position that recognizes that international laws embody international morality.

Odum won't even call for Bush's impeachment. Furthermore, Odum says he does "not favor Congressional involvement in the execution of U.S. foreign and military policy." What? Has he not read the Constitution? After all, he took an oath to protect and defend it. But ignores it. Not only does he ignore international laws. He ignores the rule-making provision of the Congress regarding the armed forces, publicly violating his own oath.

Read the Constitution people!

I remind you, it says:

"The Congress shall have power:" Article 1, Section 8
"To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and navel forces." Article 1, Section 8, Clause 14

Odum rejects this part of the Constitution, and obviously so when he says that he does "not favor Congressional involvement in the execution of U.S. foreign and military policy."

The choice is clear between those who advocate cooperation as a way of resolving conflict and those who advocate pure power: adopt the rule of law in domestic and foreign affairs or reject it. Odum rejects it.

His problem is not with the obvious violations of law by Bush. His problem is with the wielding of illegal power that is ineffective.

So while his recommendations happen to coincide with what progressives want--criticism of Bush--he does so for unprogressive reasons. And his criticisms of Bush suffer from RGS. That's Retired General Syndrome. You are a little late General Odum. 3300+ U.S. soldiers are dead. 800,000+ innocent Iraqis are dead. I ask you General Odum: Why do international laws and the provisions of the Constitution that require their enforcement matter so little to you?

There are a few Americans who seriously want Bush out, some are on this thread, but a "few" won't do it.

When the landlord painted the halls in my last building death grey, I didn't like it, it felt like a funeral home, some others didn't like it, but not enough people spoke up to get the halls repainted so I moved out of the building.

The majority of Americans don't care about Bush blowing up the planet or Bankrupting the economy, they may after things fall apart, but they don't now.

The 21st Century belongs to China. Bush is the fall of America yet he still gets the "indifferent" support of most Americans. The few who don't post on board like this, but it is too little, too late, to make a difference now.

Bush AWOL???
Not the 1st time. As I recall the Chimp In Charge was also AWOL from the Alabama Air National Guard but unlike Iraq, he had a plan to get out of Vietnam.
Impeach and Convict both Bush and Cheney, the sooner the better.

seditious,

I agree. We need to start thinking long term, and as soon as we do I think it will affect are short-term behaviour.

Ken

Ken,

As I have shown above in miniature, one ignores past events - and the larger, long-term implications - at one's own peril. Your "what happened before is over" critique of armybrat is exactly a case in point. I think armybrat's position that "You can't challenge the results of the vote when so many retards are voting for the dictators" is very wrong-headed and avoids the real issue (the fraudulent '00 and '04 elections), and in any case, saying "get over it" is ignoring the reality of the Neo Con/hard right machinations.

The enviro issues you elude to may indeed direct events in a certain way, but the overarching results I believe will still be similar to to what we have today if moderates and leftists of all stripes think mainly of short-term wins.

seditious,

I think we can't overlook the influence that today's unprecedented ecological risks will have on how things unfold. It seems to me that these very real ecological risks fundamentally change the dynamics, and what has happened before may not be a good indicator at all.

The ecological risks could definitely exacerbate the political situation, but, I like to look at it in a hopefull way. That is that the ecological risks will ultimately become a catalyst that facilitates a common move towards a more ecologically aware lifestyle - this could lead to many good things.

Peace,
Ken

It is good that Odom is "on the record" with this statement opposing the Iraq occupation, but anyone with half a brain knows damned well that Bu$hCo will stay their course right through to Jan. '09. It won't matter if 99% of adult Americans oppose it in polls, they'll stay anyway. If the entire US military got up and left Iraq en masse, they'd simply hire more Blackwater's and continue that way.

The only things that can dislodge them are impeachment and removal from office of the entire Neo Con apparatus, a physical 'in-the-streets' revolution of the US citizenry a la 1789 France, or a foreign military power such as Russia or China. None of the above are going to happen.

Iraq (and the larger goal of controlling the Mid East as well as US domestic politics and economics) is the long-awaited wet dream of the right wing - since the days of FDR they've wanted revenge.

Example question: Do you think Prescott Bush supplied materiel to the Nazis merely for profit, or do you think a bit of kindred idealism was involved? I'm willing to bet that ol' Prescott could have made a living in some other endeavor, but no, he and his ilk chose to help Hitler.

And that's just for starters.

One problem the moderates and the left have is failing to strategize for long-term results as the hard right has for many decades. Just to pick a few: some may recall GHW Bush's CIA ties as far back as his Zapata Oil days in 1953, the coup of Iran's Premier Mossadeq that same year, the Kennedy assassination and subsequent sham Warren Commission Report, ad infinitum, culminating of course in today's latest modus operandi: the "War on Terror".

We'd better get ready for the long haul if we are to chain this beast.

The River,

Thanks for your link. I look forward to reading more from Gen Odom.

Re: Bush, my belief on the explanation for Bush is generally alcoholic brain damage and/or weak brain but malleable personality exploited by Karl Rove and the Republican elite.

Hey armybrat,

You disparagingly say "the fools will..."

I'm not trying to get in an argument, but I say "name calling" is not going to help. Furthermore, what happened before is over. I'd rather put forth my energies in thinking about what is going to happen next and how can it be better than before. Of course we need to learn from the past, but that should go without saying.

In my opinion, if you are bitter, you better get over it if you want to be helpful in the future to anyone else, and it probably will feel good to you to if you get over it.

Ken

Impeach Bush, he's a fucking disgrace, a child, incapable of understanding honor, just war, he's done enough damage to, last 20 years.

On Jan 26, 2007 General Odom gave testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. His talk entitled 'Strategic Blunders of Monumental Proportions' was uninterrupted. He answered questions afterward.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/odom.php?articleid=10396
Above is a link to General Odom's testimony. General Odom is a very logical thinker and he makes his case for 'strategic disaster' very well. First, he gives a strategic overview. Second, he makes specific proposals. Third, he outlines what a revised strategy would look like. His proposals are sound and his reasoning is solid. Reading the link above will give one a much better insight into the Generals thinking than the 'Bush has gone AWOL' article. I believe that General Odom is a true patriot and that is something that is so alien to our current administration that they probably think Odom is speaking a foreign language. I dont know what happened to Bush but his brain has obviously been AWOL for his entire life. How can his brothers be somewhat articulate and display some reason while 43 is lacking any sort of diplomatic, economic, social, and political skills? He reminds me of a 16 year old punk teenager. Did he fall out of his stroller onto his head? Was he adopted? Odom is right, he is playing games like a kid. We need to impeach, and soon, before he can do more damage.

DustinColb - I sure as hell didn't vote Bush into office either time, and apparently neither did the majority of American citizens. Both elections were stolen - there is ample proof now. We ourselves will have to figure out how we are going to get our AWOL government back to adhering to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and representing the will of the people. Impeachment would be the obvious route, and while the people support it, Congress seems dismissive whenever it is brought up. Pelosi insists it isn't 'on the table' - but her table isn't our table. I doubt our forefathers would have left her table standing for 10 minutes. But they had the courage of actual conviction working for them.

I don't know how much dirt Leahy and Waxman will have to dig up before the Dems will act - I suspect it will never go any further than simply uncovering the transgressions, the corruption. Kucinich is trying to impeach Cheney, but not receiving any real support from the Democrats. I suspect the only reason the Democrats are even digging at all is to discredit the entire GOP so that they can sweep the 2008 elections. They don't appear the slightest bit interested in real justice, even though they are in the position to impeach and prosecute those accountable for crimes against both our country and Iraq.

The Dems and GOP are all members of the same D.C. Country Club. We're the ones on the outside looking in. I suspect it has been this way for a long, long time. It just took a total idiot at the helm to expose the inner workings of the machine.

Provoice: regardless of whether he goes down in history as an idiot (I think IF history survives the mess and its karmic blowback, his indictment will be a lot stronger that mere "idiot") he had a LOT of help from the authoritarians who want to dismantle the ingenious checks and balances that ideally keep power out of one maniac's hands. DustinColb: Is it possible you missed ALL the data regarding Florida's election debacle in 2000 and the way the SUPREME court pre=empted the public mandate by putting their pro-business icon into an office he was neither fit for, nor capable of managing? And do you NOT know about Ohio in 2004, and the important work of John Conyers and/or Harvey Wasserman on this subject? Americans did NOT vote (in majority) for Bush. That is a lie, or another "inconvenient (to the neo cons bringing out land to ruin for their own temporal gain) truth. And to Thunder Preacher I also wonder what they will do NEXT to hold onto the power never truly theirs to rightfully deploy. The evil is within... but it's always helpful to play the magician's game and deflect focus from where it ought be placed. Too many citizens really think we're fighting "terrorism over there" so as not to cope with it in our midst.

While Odom makes the usual good points, he strikes a false and delusory note when he says "I will respect him greatly for such a rare act of courage, and so too, I suspect, will most Americans."

Some number of Republican deadheads might think that act would deserve respect, but it in no way, to no degree, washes away the guilt of this psychotic, criminal president. I'll give Bush respect, and not much of it at that, when he goes to the war crimes gallows without whining. But he would just be blaming other people right up to the end.

Maybe Iraq is a bigger succes for the PNAC Neo-Con putschists than most people realize: billions of extra dollars landed in the hands of Bush's 'base' of the ultra-rich, Iraq is about to be 'balkanized', the US government and nation is virtually bankrupted, the middle class disempowered, the Democratic Party neo-conned (including Obama & Clinton III), the Middle East turned into a worthless, poisonous Depleted Uranium wasteland and all these treacherous acts have gone unpunished so far! Now from their standpoint Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) has been a huge succes! The American citizens have been sleeping behind their shopping carts in great numbers while their country has been hijacked by a gang that got exactly what they wanted like a hot knife through butter, like turning a Twin Tower into a pile of rubble at record speed! Now who has really been AWOL!? And what is next?

DustinColb: And how many Americans supported the invasion of Iraq AFTER the facts of the manipulated intel and lies got out? Here in California, Bush support is down to 28 percent. That is a mere one percent above Nixon's 27 percent just before he was forced out of office.

Why should anyone feel personally responsible for the Bush LIES that started this quagmire? Excuse me, but I will hold the lair himself personally accountable.

I would hope that other retired generals come out to support Odom. What he is saying makes sense. If Bush choses to stay the same old-same old course and veto the recent legislation, it is time to force Bush out of office.

Bush was not elected in 2004. Kerry was. The votes were "counted" by corrupt republicans who apparently think that God is on their side no matter what. Here's a question, How in the hell can we let the Bush regime kill, cripple, and tortures so many innocent people without demanding that they be impeached and jailed.

America take Responsibility.

America voted George Bush back in with both houses in 2004. All Americans are responsible for what has happened since then. Don't dodge the bullit. Don't blame "those" people, because it is YOU who voted for GW Bush and gave him the power in 2000 then again in 2004. Whether you voted for him directly or didn't do enough to stop your neighbour from voting for him. He was democratically elected and ALL Americans share responsibility.

The title of the article should be "Bush Has Gone AWOL, AGAIN".

hybridoma2001,

I agree we need a defense department. What is a defense department used for? Why, it is used for defense! Not offense.

Moreover, defense in NOT preemptive. By its very nature (& definition) a preeemptive strike is OFFENSIVE. Innocence will suffer.

It follows then we should have no intent to ever start a war for it is the offenders who start a war. BUT, if attacked militarily or in some other equivalent way, AND if there is minimal collective uncertainty as to the intent of the attack, THEN, I say DEFEND with all of your might.

Some would pur forth that this is how the USA has been or perhaps even argue that this is how the USA still is. Some would not agree with this sentiment.

Regardless, with this premise, how does it reflect upon the current leadership of the USA? I just wish more people would start thinking about this, and all the other essential things that ALL people need to start thinking and about and for heaven's sake start working together to find solutions. Time is of the essence, or it sure seems that way to me.

Ken

Just for your information, hybridoma, Odom, who a number of years ago called Doug Feith "the dumbest fucking man on the planet", has been speaking out for some time now.

I am in no position to judge why or why not he and others in the military remained silent when they could have resigned in protest. I think that perhaps by staying involved, they thought they might just bring some sense to this illegal war which does not serve the interests of the USA (unless your business is oil), and is only providing the terrorists with some excellent trainng grounds.
Bush has been AWOL since he was put in the presidency by the Supreme Court. I only want to say that I am greatly interested in the thinking of those like General William Odom. These men have dedicatede their lives to the srevice of our country. I respect their opinions even though I wish we had no military beyond the most vital defenses needed to protect our nation. I am not pro war nor am I pro militry, but in the real world, we need a defense department. However, the framers of the constitution were against a standing army and I agree with that. What we do need is a well trained, organized, and disciplined armed forces responsible to the civilian leadership.
Whether the speech was too late is a moot point. At least we had the opportunity to hear the thoughts of a person who was in a position to know and understand the complexities existing in the world today. Who's opinion holds more weight: Rush Limbaugh or O'Rielly, or a former high ranking military officer?

This illegal invasion into Iraq is like Humpty Dumpty. Once he's knocked off the wall, there is no way to put it back together again. And what a mess to try and clean up! Just slimy bits of yoke that slip through your fingers until your so tired of trying to clean you just want to turn and walk away. But remember, you are the one that knocked Humpty Dumpty off the wall.... and no one is going to clean up your mess. Best just to leave it and hope it drys up.

It is interesting that some people still seem to think there IS a "fix" for Iraq. Invading Iraq was a fool's venture and there is no more "fix" for it than there would be for a shattered brandy snifter.

Iraq is inherently unstable and was long before Saddam forced those religious zealots to live in relative peace and harmony.

Bush invaded with insufficient support from other nations in the world, insufficient knowledge of the natives, insufficient numbers of troops, insufficient plans for the occupation, and NO plan to exit regardless of the outcome.

The plan was to make Iraq our outpost in the Middle of the Middle East... a shining beacon of freedom and capitolism that would threaten the reign of terror the theocrats have had for centuries. Only an idiot would think it was possible.

We can poor billions more into the project, and feed thousands of more American soldiers into the shredder... but the ultimate outcome will be the same... this year as it would be 30 years from now.

Bush will go down in history as a bumbling fool... along with everyone who believed in him.

AWOL during national guard tour of duty. AWOL when news of impending attack on US by Bin Laden came across his desk. AWOL during/post Katrina. AWOL when this nation is in dire need of a TRUE LEADER.
Point being he hasnt gotten any better.
Mission accomplished??? WTF?
Incidentally, Bush was "selected" for his first term courtesy of the electoral college and his second term was hijacked.
Further reading on the swell job he has been doing since assuming Reich Chancellor.............
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:George_W._Bush_administration_controversies

Mr. Bush went AWOL a long time ago. One of the advantages privilege confers upon people in this country is absolution from the consequences of one's actions........

The really interesting thing here is that Pelosi invited Odom to deliver this address. As he does here, Odom offers consistently stronger medicine than the Iraq Study Group. Note that he has nothing to say of substance about how to 'fix' Iraq except that the US must leave.

Maybe this is our Rommel. Rommel was involved in the failed plot to assassinate Hitler and as a result was given a choice of execution by his Nazi masters or to take his own gun and do the job himself. He chose the latter.

No general you are no Rommel--but thanks for telling us what we already knew. What took you so long to find your voice?

General Odom

Why don't you stand in line with the rest of the retired Generals in front of a congressional committe and the American people and speak in a united voice against this AWOL Presidensts failure before a new funding bill is prepared if not sooner, like before the veto.

It is not a bipartisan bill. And the only way to sway the authoritarian Republicans walking in lock step over the cliff with their leader is with overwhelming counter authority. The elections are too far away. If it were a bipartisan bill it would by definition have the authority behind it to override a veto.

Stand with your collegues general, and say it loud and clear, not couched in political cushions. Your tone and political disclaimers betray a fear of political rebuke that this 'crises' has long surpased in urgency.

Thank you none the less, very, very much.

Molly hit the old nail on the head. This statement must have caused the general grave discomfort and was terribly hard for him to say. I'm impressed he went as far as he did. Unfortunatly the 11th paragraph starts with the crux of the problem..."A wise commander..."
GWB has never displayed one shred of wisdom. When his policies fail his answer is to KILL MORE PEOPLE! I pray for his enlightenment...right now. But I fear I pray in vain.

I really feel fortunate to read the wide vision of so many progressive writers of the Commondreams.org writers but also those of you take the time to comment.

I think we need progressive voices to keep pushing for where we should be.

But just for today, I want you to appreciate that a retired lt. general did something very contrary to his miliatary socialization. He called the president AWOL and called for the congress to take control of an out of control situation.

You know, folks, this may not take us tomorrow where we want to be but I do believe that it signifies an inexorable movement that will at least lead us away from blindly following Bush policies.

We won't have reassurance that our democracy is functional unless and until we see our president and veep impeached and/or tried in the international criminal court.

But just for today, this isn't bad.

Several years ago, it seemed that academics were fond of "democratic institutions". I always thought this term to be an oxymoron since the very nature of institutions institutionalizes people. People become emotionally dependent upon their place in the institutional hierarchy. It's very difficult for people to oppose the institution, such as the General.

RichM: Excellent points!

Thank you, General.

You are a true patriot.

Would that Bush would listen.

He won't

Impeach. Convict. Imprison

It's a good statement until the line near the bottom that begins "The bill that Congress approved this week, with bipartisan support..." Then it gets weak. First of all, contrary to conventional wisdom, "bipartisan support" is not something "good." If both Republicans and Democrats agree on something, it's far more likely to be damaging to the world & to most Americans, than beneficial to them. That's why we're in this mess -- both big parties are nearly completely criminal, are partners & accomplices of one other, & are agents of the most dangerous aspects of our society, not the saner aspects.

Secondly, what is this sentence about: "I hope the President seizes this moment for a basic change in course and signs the bill the Congress has sent him. I will respect him greatly for such a rare act of courage...? The bill is NOT about any radical shift of strategy, it's precisely (in Odom's words) about a "marginal" shift. The bill fully funds the war, is "non-binding," and the much-ballyhooed "timeline" has huge loopholes & exceptions in it. If Bush signs the bill as is, he could keep the war going indefinitely without violating the bill's provisions.

And why after all his good points would Odom stoop to talking about "respecting" Bush's "courage?" Bush has already earned the right to spend the rest of his life facing tribunals & punishment for war crimes & high treason. It's part of our society's madness, to go on pretending that this "president" who came to office through fraud & vote-suppression is anything other than what he is.

Why does Odom "not favor Congressional involvement in the execution of U.S. foreign and military policy"? Does he think the military should hsve a totally free hand? Why do Americans stand in awe of their generals? Most of them, Odom included, strike me as ill-educated buffoons.

Dear General Odom, Thank you! Please include the following information in your next radio address:

1. "Commander in Chief" is a title only -- it doesn't confer ability or clarity of thought on the person who holds it. The title is given to whichever politician who is president at the moment in order to make the clear distinction that 'the Military report to the Civilian authority'.

2. That disapproving funds to prolong this murderous debacle is not letting down the troops. It is a message to the lice that have infested the head of our government.

3. No person without combat experience should, in the future, have any sway over actions in the field. Keep the lice and their counterparts in other governments out of any decision making during dangerous operations in the field.

Thich Nhat Hanh has is right, "People deserve the government they receive."

A General accuses the President of being AWOL and all he comes up with is "I hope he changes course" -- where's the metal in that?

And the Common Dreams editors -- one impeachment piece after Articles of Impeachment have been issued in Congress leading up to impeachment actions across the nation(?!). Where's the metal, where's the leadership?

Is Dennis Kucinich the last standing American, the last to have the American Spirit flow across his tongue?

And I have to look in the mirror and ask these questions of myself...

It is remarkable, is it not, to hear the voice of wisdom and experience speak through the voices of unthinking, unquestioning ideology? In clear contrast, the Cheney/Bush goal of unending occupation of Iraq now stands out in much sharper focus.

Negotiations between Congress and Cheney/Bush are scheduled for this coming Wednesday. I will be surprised and overjoyed if they result in a reversal of the Cheney/Bush strategy. But if they don't, I hope Congress will find the mettle to stop funding our tragic misadventure in Iraq.

Bush is a child, a little boy playing with guns. He's as capable of courage as a 5-year-old. He has no understanding of concepts like just war. He's been a spoiled brat all his life, he's never faced any consequences, and he never will. That's why he plays games, its all a game. Unfortunately, as HL Mencken wrote, most Americans are on his level intellectually. Just repeat your lies enough and you win the game.

if you think bush works for America, then his administration is a complete failure in every respect.

if you think that he is the actual head of Al Queda, then it's been a smashing success. The Saudis are starting to see Bush in this light. Rather than tacitly support Bush and order him around, they now see him as the very real threat to peace that he is. He has united the entire world agains us.

sterling150: not going to happen until there is money to be made reporting such.

"He neither acts nor talks as though he is in charge".

On camera he told three hundred million Americans and the rest of the world that he will defy and veto any occupation funding that comes with a withdrawl deadline . That doesn't sound like talk coming from a man who doesn't think he's still in charge. AWOL sounds cute but it's not true , at least from Bush's perspective.

Must be great to be a retired general. Too bad General Petraeus is unable to speak truth to congress and the president. When one carries out a fools errand, one becomes a fool; just ask Colin Powel.

This also the moment for the Mainstream Press to report and explore the points made by the General. The great failure of our Time is that the press has not applied logic, reason, and historical knowledge to the White House use of terms like "winning" and "staying the course" and "victory." These words are antithetical to stability in the Middle East.

A voice of reason, level-headed and well considered. Thank you, General, for your astute advice. Let us hope and pray the pesident listens to you and regards well your broad experience, and then takes your advice to heart.

I'm still not going to hold my breath waiting, but thank you for speaking up. We need many more like yourself to stand up for what is right and true.

General William Odom is one of the few "wise old men" in this country who dare to speak the truth to power. Others are cowed by the office of president, even when, as now, it happens to be occupied by a dangerous nincompoop.

"March 19, 2003 · U.S. begins military strikes in Iraq, which many consider the beginning of the Iraq War."

On this date, the Americans by the fact of their actions taken have lost the little war in Iraq, but have begun the Great War against the Third World of less developed countries.

America's new hundred years war has not only lead to the death and starvation of the conquered in Iraq and Afghanistan, but more over an expansion into the African continent. In the end it will lead to the starvation of those working Americans who both supported and opposed the little war against the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Drex -

Just to clarify my position: armybrat's statement, "You can't challenge the results of the vote when so many retards are voting for the dictators..." is incorrect in that yes, you CAN and SHOULD challenge election results if they look to be suspect, no matter how many of the 'mind-fucked Merkin voters' has voted for the potential usurper(s). If they win after an accurate, honest recount then so be it, but WHY they voted that way is a topic apart from honest election results.

PaulMagillSmith -

Good post, and I appreciate the link provided.

Yes, you could say that I'm a bit frustrated, but I'd also say that I'm mostly disgusted by where we've been for the past several years. It's hard to say where/when the wheels really began to fall off - was it JFK's murder? Or was it Johnson's insane continuation of Vietnam? I think not at that point yet because instead of attempting to steal an election, Johnson simply didn't run in '68.

MLK and RFK were killed, but through the Nixon/Agnew years we still had a press corps that would ferret the bastards out and a Congress that would still do their unpleasant but Constitutional duty. To their credit, both Agnew then Nixon resigned rather than pulling a Scooter Libby (hopeless trial) or Alberto Gonzales (condemned hanger-on).

I think Bush II and his crew were emboldened by his father's and Reagan's October Surprise stunt. Some of the same criminals who orchestrated that were involved in the Nov./Dec. 2000 coup d'etat. No mere coincidence there, but by then the Supreme Court had also been infiltrated by corruption.

Then there was 9/11, Iraq, the sham 9/11 Commission Report, another fraudulent election, and now a Democratic Party that doesn't have the integrity to do their duty.

So here we are with half-baked speeches such as Gen. Odom's. I think considering the past 40+ years of US political history, the solutions are clear. Whether the US public will do what needs to be done is not.