Iraq is an OIL GRAB and we want to do the same thing in Iran
America is an Imperialist Power, we a declining world
power and all that we have left is a kick ass military
and a bankrupt administration run by two extreme
ideologue OIL MEN and they have run our Democracy
into the ground IMPEACH NOW

...its time to leave iraq and the middle east totally,no white people belong there...

kucinich is honest...

no hope as america is broke and the people don!t know it has happened...who are the 35% of greedy bastards who support this crap...

Just to be clear.

Losing: not being to open the tap on Iraqi oil and keep the McWalMart economy going full tilt.

Assume 1 million Iraqi's dead, 4,000 american troops dead, the US military degraded below usefulness.

International terrorist organizations have now learned and spread the knowledge of how to crack US tanks and bring down US helicopters. At this time a EFP capable of disabling our largest tank costs less than $100; the tank costs $2 million plus.

Because the majority of US citizens have allowed this we are hated worldwide. When you travel pretend you are Canadian eh.

The US is bankrupt. Compare the Dow Jones to gold, silver, oil, Euros, bushels of wheat or any other commodity except cell phones and it is clear our money is worth less every day.

Our ecosystem is on the verge of collapse. Eating cockroaches will soon be done merely for food rather than for big tv bucks.

Lost.

Thank you Harry Reid. Yes, the Iraq War is lost.
Keep saying it loud and clear.

In reality, there is no war and no enemy. Its all a made up propaganda feat. We've only tumbled the government and fomented a civil war while we try to take over the country. This is not a war. This is an invasion.

The only real terrorism comes from the White House. The US republican administration is trying to build an empire in the Mid East. Iraqi oil is only the first step. What about Iranian oil? Khazak oil? Keeping all the oil away from China, Europe and India? Empire means control of everything.

They think we don't know that's what they're trying to do, but we do. This is not the will of the people, only that of the criminals in the White House.

Support the troops. Get US out of Iraq, now.

US armed forces out of Iraq? Absolutely. But:

Blackwater will still be there. And here. And...

Bush and his comrades do not have the ability to "send" in more troops or keep the ones there, there. Each has an individual responsibility for his/her compliance. When will we, the citizens and residents of this country, recognize that it is our individual responsibility to go or not go? The few who have deserted, gone to Canada or wherever, or simply refused to go and faced court martial are the real heroes. Forget supporting the troops. They have to make a choice for themselves. When Bush next faces some military group, let them stand for themselves and tell him what they think. If they choose to cheer him or remain silent, then they have made their choice. I cannot and will not take responsibility for them. I don't support the Troops who are killing and maiming other human beings in my name. What makes them any different from Cho of the VT murders? This whole war is insanity, and those who are promoting it are as insane as Cho. End of Story!!!

st john

Quote: ''I can't begin to imagine how our troops in the field, who are risking their lives every day, are going to react when they get back to base and hear that the Democrat leader of the United States Senate has declared the war is lost," said Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky.

What the troops are going to say is:

WHY DID IT TAKE YOU IDIOTS SO LONG TO SEE THE OBVIOUS ?
Get us the Hell OUT of this Mess!

We've also lost the war on South America, too.
Viva Chavez!

The USA lost the war in Vietnam, and has now lost the War in Iraq, and hopefully has also lost the neo-imperialist agenda known as the "New American Century". If so, how are we going to prevent the formation of a new Islamic Caliphate, and how are we going to prevent the formation of an American theocracy, and how are we going to prevent a global religious war?

macchendra,

I was responding to the phrase by DupontWest that "["the Democrats"] had originally voted for Bush's adventurist policies." Originally, they did not.

After Bush had already created a failed state in Iraq, the Democratic Party, trying to figure out how to put the pieces back together or how to win elections in a country that seemed bent on a military solution, made a very bad choice.

Democrats have made bad choices in other areas, too. But I believe that Republicans have made more bad choices than Democrats during most of the years that I have been a registered voter.

If a third party existed that agreed with all my beliefs, I would support them in a flash.

Maggots. A writhing bowl of maggots feeding on the dead gray matter of the "sheeple". These treasonous swine LIE US INTO MURDERING 655,000 human beings to make themselves and their Israeli / corporate handlers wealthier than they already are, Privatize the military to siphon off billions to their "base", rape the VA so all "our boys" lay in their own feces/urine, deprive them of funds for psyche help when "our boys" realize they've been duped into invasion and mass murder/torture and start having nightmares about facing their creator and loved ones and THEY tell the Dems THEY DON'T SUPPORT the TRUTH!!?? The pathetic part of it all? Atleast 40% of you mindless drones will "parrot" their bullshit and say "yeah,...those freaking Liberals! Why, they're not PATRIOTIC!
A nation of sheep, led by a cartel of whores, controlled by Israel / big business. Welcome,... to the REAL Evil Empire.

Macchendra, stop beating a dead horse. The vote of individual members of Congress elected by their constituents is what counts. If you read the 2004 DNC platform you will find far more than warmongering and sabre-rattling. We have many Democrats inside Congress who have never waivered from their determination to oppose this misnomer "War On Terror." Check out the rooster of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, the largest caucus in the House for many of their names.

It would not be the first time in history that nations have sent their forces to fight for a lost cause. After the dust settles a nice monument with fountains and lights can be built for the benefit of the people who lost their loved ones. What more can be done?

JFB, when the DNC make war part of their platform, they do "vote for it"

I want to remind DupontWest and others that the majority of Democrats in Congress at the time of the vote on the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 voted AGAINST the Resolution (147-110). When the majority of a party votes against something, it is not fair to say the party voted for it. Don't take anything the republicans or the main stream media say at face value.

to BIllN

while certainly all of us need encouragement - to be enheartened is another way of saying it - the democrats in national office need to take responsibility for their own consciences - if they need to be spoonfed they should have stayed home.

i am not interested, too much, in any possible congressional solutions and doubt strongly that any will come from there anyway - with the heating and toxic earth in a fevered state and the politics of the day is talking about cutting carbon emissions maybe someday - the fire burns now -

democrats are worse than useless for they not only do nothing they are obstructionist and power greedy

the relevance of the USA as anything but a thrashing and devouring cultivation let loose from the corporate labs is over - it now only is to stop it where it stands

No offense taken Mr. Lawrence. To clarify, I think the war was the President's idea. Mr. Cheney is along for the ride driven by oil lust just as you and most of the other bloggers suggest. I often try to understand these incredibly wealthy people who continue to lie cheat and steal for yet more money. If doesn't make any sense. How could more money benefit an unhealthy man like Cheney? I'm still not ready to apply Occam's razor here.

Someome above reflected that we haven't defined victory, defeat, and support. See my previous post. Victory is securing the "rights" to Iraq's oil. If accomplished it will be a short-lived victory. If I were an Iraqi I'd do everything I could so the bastards didn't get a drop.

Don't mean to be rude Mr./Ms. Stevens but please apply Occam's razor here: Postulates should not be compounded unnecesarily.

Bush went from tewowist hunting, to invasion and occupation, and now to bribery to get the oil. Believe it, don't doubt it. The most important demand being made by Bush and hotter than a hot impeachment potato is the "resource sharing agreement" wherby a Cheney oil cartel steals Iraq's oil and sells it to us , but we'll have to pick up the tab to repair Iraq. Convenient, eh?

As usual, Kucinich is one of the few that objects to this theft, but the rest of Congress has lost its voice on this one. Might as well trying to hold a press conference offering proof that Jesus was gay.

I wouldn't assume that the war in Iraq is all about oil, nor would I assume that Dick Cheney was the real instigator. I'm sure you all remember that in April 1993 when Senior
Bush was visiting Kuwait with his family, there was a failed assasination plot that was believed to be the work of Saddam Hussein. I think the very delusional George Junior wanted to make his father proud (and perhaps safe) by dragging us into war. Another thought is that George Senior was often criticized for not "finishing the job" in Iraq. Young George wanted to finish the job for his father.

I really don't think Bush knew what he was getting into. In his simple mind, he thought that the second war in Iraq would be just like the first. I know that war provides a great opportunity for plunder, but to understand this war we have to look at the very questionable mental state of the president. This is exactly why one person should never have so much power.

We need a propaganda machine as powerful as the Republicans have. Democrats are timid because they face withering fire from Fox and the right wing radio, TV, Blogs, and newspapers. Where are we?

Many people criticize the Dems, although I am pleased to see, most here seem satisfied with Sen. Reid's pronouncement on the war. The comments here must be encouraging to Dems. They need your support to face the blast from the right. Have you noticed that the right has even issued a counter to Howard Zinn's People's History? The right wing book, "A Patriot's History..." also has a blue cover. Now that's some fine revisionist propaganda!

Now you need to write letters to the editor, hold a community forum on the war, talk to your neighbors, speak out at church, call in to radio shows, contribute to community stations, publish a pamphlet, or otherwise change the tenor of public debate.

Yes, we each must all work for, seek and create peace.

[If anyone gets this far...congratulations this is very long thread.]

Let's get some basic definitions on the table for the American public, because it seems that no one has been using English to describe what is happening, to wit:

Can anyone out there define "success" as it pertains to the US involvment in Iraq?

Can anyone define "Losing" as it as it pertains to the US involvement in Iraq?

Can anyone define "support" relative to the Americans troops currently involved in Iraq? Furhter, what does "support" consist of?

Can anyone define "winning" as it pertains to 1) the US and 2) the Iraqi people?

IF, at the beginning of this tragedy the US had said "success" would be the elimination of Saddam Hussein, the destruction of an infrastrucure and the destabilizing of a sovereign state so that the US could become the "oil dealer" of Iraq, would that be a definition of success that anyone would have supported? If the American people knew that without a stable government, friendly to the US, there was a chance that their standard of living would take a nose dive, and therefore we went to Iraq to defend their standard of living, would they have supported the war that has killed so many?

So, now that Harry Reid has used the word "Lose" relative to Iraq, can anyone define what "losing" is? I surely can't. The only losing I am seeing is 3,000 American soldiers, who knows how many Muslim/Muslim killings and how many "mercenaries" killed and the American "economy" (which is now an oxymoron). These, are the only losses.

So if we do something to stop our losses, isn't the opposite of "losing" "winning".

One last question: we are spending how many millions of dolllars a day "supporting" our troops in Iraq...what if we took all that tresure and sent "peace soldiers" and the money instead: peace soldiers, like teachers, doctors, urban reconstruction experts, MASH units, support for indigenous industrial growth, farming and agricultural people, and maybe a free handout to get people things mike food. Hell, Hamas did it in Lebabnon and was declared a hero. It seems it would cost a lot less than continuing on to "success"

[at the risk of being an unwanted Web Mommy, the one thing I like about this forum is it's civility in both thought, respect and language, I hope we can hold on to those ideals in our dialogs]

I keep saying over and over this is NOT about Iraq, this about breaking the Military and Privatizing the Military. The Administration has known from day one that this would happen and have been pushing for the BREAK in the MILITARY.

Mr. Reid and the rest of the Senate and Congress would better serve us by starting a complete INVESTIGATION into "Blackwater" and its sudden surge into prominence. Have no doubts about the Military take over of this Country it is now about 6-8 months from being a reality.

I would start ATTACKING the Right Wing Media for having Blinderts on and giving this Administration a Blank check. If anyone is Unpatriotiic it is the Right wing Media and this Administration.

Does the Senate and Congress have the Intestinal Foftitude to take on this Administration, Will they take on this Administration, they are fighting a Thirty year preset plan they must go back anf review the new Century plan, for the salvation of this Country.

montemerrick,

I was only trying to contest your point that "the USA appears to have gotten what it wanted in iraq" as I do not believe that Bush has secured what he set out to get. As for Reid, calling it a "loss," I am not sure whether he means that he has given up on the real aims of the war or that he merely means it is time for the US government to give up on achieving an image of victory (and saving Bush's "face"), while still trying to control the oil. I am aware that the Democrats so far have signed onto the oil production sharing agreements and have not renounced that as a goal in Iraq.

I agree with you that it is sickening that the Democrats join the Republicans in thinking that if we successfully rob the Iraqis of their oil, while leaving their country almost unlivable (with all the depleted uranium not to mention the other damage), then it is a win. But I still believe there are an infinite number of degrees of evil, and Bush is considerably more evil than the Democrats, though the Democrats never seem to fail to disappoint and disturb me.

The war was lost before it started.

please forgive these typos - i often forget to give it the once over.

haqqs = has

the others i believe, though goofy, are decipherable.

Kivals - what exactly are you saying - it is not very clear

I am saying that Reid and any other democrat, or republican, or anyone, who uses the language of victory and defeat in discussing the atrocity that is the iraq invasion, or the positioning of the USA for that matter in the "resource wars" that are upon us,dowes nothing more than substantiat e allthe lies, the evil deeds, and reveal themselves aspart and parcel of the order that haqqs brought the world to this most unfortunate place - the world will move on - it always does, evven a cinder can orbit the sun -

i am saying that what we need now is something very far beyond politics and i couldnt care less what a bunch rat bastards in DC have to say no matter what side of the putrid aisle they might happen to sit.

them i'msick unto death of - as is the world - the world such as the mountains and the rivers and the salmon and the bears and the birds that live on the sea - me, and they,do not care what senator reid has to say.

montemerrick,

I think we need to look beyond the public statements. Virtually all progressives realize the war was intended to ensure that US and UK oil companies would get production sharing agreements where they would get the lion's share of benefit from the trillions of dollars of oil beneath Iraq.

If the US cannot install a friendly regime and keep a significant force in Iraq, it cannot ensure that the production facilities, the pipelines, the personnel of US oil companies are safe, and it cannot guarantee that the production sharing agreements will be enforced and kept as part of Iraq law. This is what Bush's goals are and if he achieves them, he will consider it a win and if does not, he will know it is a loss.

Common ordinary citizens, with no connection to the oil companies or to the military-industrial complex, have nothing to gain. The huge profits of the oil companies will do the common people no good, and instead will empower the oil companies and those associate with them to further bully us and manipulate and corrupt our government (even more than now). And it will lead to even more dependence on oil and delay the transition to renewable fuels and a sustainable economy and way of life.

It is time for the Democrats to shove Nancy Pelosi aside and start impeachment proceedings... NOW.

The war was lost when the Bush post-"Shock and Awe"-planning consisted of designing a new Iraqi flag the giddy flower-strewing populace could rally behind as they joined us in capitalist excess.

the langauge of loss and victory, whether from a democrat or a republican only substantiates the lie that we are there to do anything but get the oil - which is very nearly if not already accomplished - if there is a way for the USA to "win" in Iraq it is using the same definition for "win" that a bank robber, or a kidnapper,might use - meaning, did you get the goods that you set out to get, if so, you won.

so the USA appears to have gotten what it wanted in iraq - looks like a "win" to me. now if the people that happen to live in the USA want to be just, all they have to do is arrest the criminals and try them and if all goes well convict the guilty and then suitable restrict them from braod paraticipation with them who they've harmed - the world and its beings.

Oh my god, someone in Washington told the truth about the war. Out loud! The words were even repeated (unbleeped) on CNN. How did this happen?? Is it the beginning of a trend or was this a fluke?

I wonder how the troops feel when they're told their deployment is going to last 15 months, rather than 12. Hmm. I'm surprised we didn't hear the Hallelujah shouts all the way over here in the good ol' U.S. of A. This is the Alice in Wonderland administration - up is down, black is white, and those who don't support the "war" on terror are with the terrorists. Can we really wait until Bush's time is up? Can we afford to, both in terms of lives lost and treasure spent?

I wish people would quit dreaming about Impeachment. In order to be convicted in the Senate, and thus removed, it requires a two-thirds vote (Section 3, Article I, US Constitution). It is not going to happen with 49 Republicans plus one Lieberman in the US Senate. Bush could violate every single provision of the US Constitution that a President could possibly violate and it would not happen. He could start a new World War and get over a billion people killed and it would not happen. He could open concentration camps and have millions of Americans gassed to death and it would not happen.

You might as well wish that Tinkerbell taps Bush with her wand and he becomes a progressive.

'Turning your back on the troops' is when you send soldiers into battle under the false pretense of 'defending the nation' when in fact it is for the sole purpose of meeting a narrow, corporate agenda dictated by defence contractors and big oil. The patriotic thing to do is to prevent our troops from being corporate pawns all the while filling their heads with mindless rhetoric and false promises of an ill defined victory.
Americans must realize that the Neo-Cons never had any intention of leaving Iraq regardless of the violence that would emerge from this ill conceived , profit induced adventure and subsequently they will never abandon this position until they're booted out of power. Even then there is no guarantee that the Democrats won't also be corporate sycophants wholly dependant on blood money to finace their election bids. It's not so much a conspiracy as it is the nature of the beast - the military idustrial complex!

Thank you Senator Reid, we've been waiting a long time for this to happen!

As former CIA agent, Ray McGovern has said: Deafeat is not an option - it's a certainty.

It's nice to see that some republicans are also becoming grounded in reality.

I believe George Bush has killed enough innocent people. The American public is saying enough is enough. George Bush , however, is arrogant and pompous.

We need to reestablish credibilty in the world. May God have mercy on us.

It's tempting to call childish, those Republicans, and anyone else in or out of the country, who blather, angrily or otherwise, about how Democrats, progressives and assorted people of intelligence and conscience do not 'support the troops' when they call the 'war' lost, and for the troops to come home. (Or, if you prefer, get out while they can.)
But that would be to insult children, who have better sense than these ridiculous clowns.
How much more sick to death of this farce is it possible to get?? The best thing that can be done to 'support the troops ' is to rescue them from Iraq, and from the criminal administration by getting the hell on with the most urgent piece of business besides looking after the veterans, the citizens of New Orleans and the people of the country: the impeachment and ideally trial and conviction of the evil twins - the Puppet and the Vice-Puppet, along with as much of the rest of this cabal as can be rounded up. But we know, don't we, that this bunch, especially the evil twins, have themselves barricaded behind a wall of lawyers and money many miles high and thick, they're taking steps to protect their hell-bound hides from war-crimes trials, will be allowed to retire to speaking engagements at bastions of enlightened intellectualism such as 'Bob Jones University', etc.
We're all quite tired of realizing and listening to each other point out that impeachment would require, of course, that the Speaker and newly elected Congressional members actually grasp the real nature of the crisis this country is in, and have the guts to put their own political careers on the line to DO WHAT'S RIGHT. Unless, as many of us suspect, they DO grasp the real nature of the crisis and either have guns to their heads or are all working for The Dark Side just for the payday they think is in it.
But as long as the Congress is what Bill Moyers has called a 'multi-trillion dollar influence racket' (touche, Mr Moyers); and the profit-driven American political porno industry demands since November that the obscene spectacle of the 2008 'Presidential' campaign be launched on the road; and as long as one can't get near the White House without being very rich and/or able to get it off the very rich; and as long as Republicans and the neo-con-artists and right-wing-nuts know that this 'support the troops' (read 'support the greed and hate-based foreign policy') crap plays well to the still-massive (and to at least some of us) lamentable ignorance of the American public, you can forget about getting what's right done.
Those who assert that America should stay there 'til the job is done' are part of the problem, not the solution. What, precisely, is this 'job'? Whatever it is, they're working overtime at making a right cock-up of it. This so-called war was never righteous, and is a major step, if not THE major, in the direction of burying America under it's own hubris.
It's my view that for Congress to have not immediately pulled out the stops in November to attempt to move on impeachment constitutes treason, for the criminality of the administration was already known. There appears to be no legislation in place to deal with a Congress which does not do its damn DUTY when faced with the likes of the thuggery going on in the Executive Branch. And Nancy Pelosi says that it wasn't on the table - we need to move forward???!!!
Is this woman for real? Who's she working for??
EXACTLY HOW DO YOU MOVE FORWARD, WITH ANY EXPECTATION OF PROGRESS TO A DESTINATION WHEN A CRIMINAL LUNATIC IS TAKING THE BIGGEST AXE HE CAN FIND TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BOAT? THE ACTUAL GOAL, DESTINATION, IS THE SINKING OF THE SHIP OF STATE, RIGHT?

Remember, when Rashid Khalidi, et. al., went knocking on the White House door to offer Midddle-Eastern/Iraq EXPERT ASSISTANCE as the snot-nosed wackos behind that door were about to go to war, they had the door shut in their faces, with, I'm sure, what passes for diplomacy and politeness these days in Washington.
According to Mr Khalidi, on the Charlie Rose show at the time.
So let's be clear where these redneck freaks stood all along on this 'support the troops' thing. THE TROOPS WERE NEVER SUPPORTED BY INTELLIGENT LEADERS CALLING THE SHOTS - 'CAUSE THE 'LEADERS' ARE NASTY, IMMORAL GREEDHEADS WHO COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THIS COUNTRY OR ITS TROOPS - AND THE TROOPS WERE NEVER SUPPORTED BY A RIGHTEOUS CAUSE. So, get a clue, get on the right side of the future history of this thing unless you want to share the Puppet's and Vice Puppet's special reserved place in hell, and get on the side that's not committed to so spectacularly losing, and give it up with the attack on Harry Reid. The man's got more guts and decency than the pack of you. And, your blather is BORING.
Didn't we just hear that the Puppet hasn't attended funerals for deceased returning soldiers, but did go to Virginia Tech? He did not and does not have the common decency (to say nothing of the p.r. sense) to meet with Cindy Sheehan, disdained New orleans and did NOTHING to prevent the Walter Reed situation, or the Abu Ghraib obscenity, and of course presides over the whole collossal lawlessness and moral vacuum of Guantanamo and the rest of his administration's agenda.

Support the damn troops by saving them from all this evil, and construct the appropriate political/diplomatic machinery, using people with brains and moral compasses and a SENSE OF HUMILITY, to deal with the mess. Put the troops to work fixing what's broken in this country, like New Orleans and tearing down the prisons-for-profit. Plant some of these fruitcakes who accuse Harry Reid of not 'supporting the troops' down in the Green Zone while a suicide bomber rips the joint up because the crowd that a lot of these Republicans, and 'Christians' are apologizing for CAN'T SECURE A WET PAPER BAG, especially in the face of a game in which their American Imperial Zealotry is out-fanaticized.
If this bunch had to cope on the ground, they'd have a different tune. But then, the only thing there's more of than money and graft in this political system is barking hypocrisy.

I think Bush needs to prepare our country for the hordes of Sunni refugees that will come to our country once we leave Iraq. That is the ultimate shame that comes from creating wars and destabilizing regions for the sake of a self-serving ideology. France, Germany, Holland, and Spain have already suffered these consequences.

Let the Iraqis use their own self-determining powers.

Peace Warrior, you have it right: we simply do not belong in Iraq. It was never our fight, we've done way more damage than good.

Get out while there is still an Iraqi alive to try and rebuild a country.

frankly I'm sick of talking about whether we are "winning" or "losing" (of course we're losing)......

The debate of winning or losing takes our eyes off of the real issue....

WE DON'T BELONG THERE

Why should we be happy, even if we were winning, when this war is a giant corporate crime/oil grab and our soldiers and their civilians are being butchered to maximize corporate profits. That is the only reason we are in Iraq. If there was a valid reason they wouldn't have told the millions of lies to cover the truth

WE DON'T BELONG THERE

GET OUT

FUKC whether or not we're "winning" or "losing"

we're in the wrong....stop it

GET OUT

If the only thing that they have left is "support the troops" you would think they are in their last throes. Summer and warm weather is coming, and I hope to see all of you in Washington this summer. We can stop this.

For all the similarities to the early successes of the Nazis in Germany, this is not, is it? We will decide. We must make the effort. Nothing else is so important now. Before more minds become bowed to the yoke. People can still SEE, we just don't know how to ACT.

I am not sure what winning is. Maybe lots of contracts for American companies and another client state.

Anyone who knows anything about the region knows that the people in Iraqi have always been the hardest fighting people throughout history.

We "lost" the day we dropped the first bomb.

We added to the loss when we didn't secure the country.

We cemented the loss when we didn't react to the torture at Abu Grahib.

The only thing remaining is how many more people will die before we admit that we lost and get out. We can only make things worse.

I do get tired when politicians say they didn't believe it would happen this way. I knew it would happen exactly this way.

"Actually, I am a little confused by what "supporting the troops" means..."

I believe the british author George Orwell covered this topic well in several books and essays. I refer you to him....

Even if the Democrats were to bring all the troops home. What they are failing to mention or may not know as many Americans don't knos, is that half the troops there are provided by the mercinary corporation: Blackwater.

Vice President Dick Chaney and the religious right have ties to Blackwater. This should be brougt to the attention of our congressman.

The Republicans must think the American public are dumb, don't you feel insulted?

Why in god's name are the Democrats not using Bush's very language---"democracy"---to argue for a withdrawal? Polls clearly show opposition is overwhelming among Iraqis to the U.S.'s continued presence. These polls add up to the most powerful criticism of continuation of the war: If we believe in democracy, then let the Iraqis speak and decide about our presence in their country. For some reason the Democratic leaders are either ignorant of this data or refuse to use it as evidence for their arguments.

Republicans using the "support the troops" demagoguered rhetoric is simply a sinister and disingenuous form of.....

Politically charged EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL.....

If Republicans were genuinely ingenuous in "supporting the troops".....

THEY WOULD CALL FOR THE TROOPS IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL OUT OF HARMS WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't support your fucking serial killing troops, and if going without money means they won't be able to kill more Iraqis, I'm all for it.

ay yi yi
the "war"is not "lost"
the crime is committed - you cant win or lose crimes.

who cares what a dumb cluck democrat says if he says the war is lost. that's just another stripe of evil arrogant hegemonism (is that a word?)

end america now!

I don't know what's more surprising - the fact that the Democrats are finally waking up to the injustice of this war or that they had originally voted for Bush's adventurist policies even when the President and Congress were being warned repeatedly that any invasion of Iraq would have disastrous consequences in terms of American losses (including the loss of civil rights) and Iraqi civil war. All these warnings came to life long before the latest Democratic change of heart. Nonetheless, I'm glad that the Democratic Party is finally opposed to the war on Iraq rather than collaborating in it. It seems that, for all intents and purposes, this is a religious war launched by the Christian right, not unlike the Nazi expansion in the XX century, fueled by a criminal convuction that the opponents are somehow less than complete human beings, Untermenschen, if you will. Americans who oppose this war are treated by its defenders as a somehow worse class of people whose rights can be trampled freely and without any regard to the Constitution. The world has already experienced it in the last century, one of the bloodiest on record and is unwilling to go through it again under religious or some other guise. I despise terrorism as much as any fellow but I am opposed to the waste of American and innocent Iraqi lives with no end or victory in view. If anything, the U.S. should have learned from the Soviet experience in Afghanistan. Where is the Soviet Union today? It is long dead, abandoned by its unwilling "allies". Its replacement, Russia, is turning increasingly toward totalitarianism under Putin and threatening to sink into total chaos, once again endangering the world. I hope the U. S. isn't heading in the same direction. For many peoples around the world, America used to be, rightly or wrongly, a beacon of freedom. Now, increasingly abandoned by its supporters, it is seen as a rogue Leviathan desperately throwing its weight around. I hope that this image won't become firmly imprinted on the psyche of Americans as well. The sooner we abandon the doomed Iraqi venture, the sooner we vwill regain our balance and, perhaps, some good will around the world.

reid.senate.gov/contact/email_form.cfm

Let's inundate Harry Reid with SUPPORT/PLAUDITS for the SPOKEN TRUTH.

Like chicken soup, it can't hoit!

Sorry should have read and other poor souls and their dog!

One thing is being missed here I think. A war oif aggression is the 'supreme crime' under the Nuremerg rulings. These troops could be tried for war crimes even for having their feet on Iraqi soil. They can walk away - even Kofi Annan admitted to the BBC the war was 'illegal'. SO why d they stay and die for nothing.Walk out folks, are they going to arrest the entire US/UK troops and the other poor souls and their do??

LEAVE NOW.

Support the troops is a misnomer used by enablers of this illeagal war to keep making blood money. Tony

DON'T BOTHER ME

The "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" decal is on the vehicle and I have to go shopping so don't bother me.

They volunteered and should just do what they are supposed to do so don't bother me

Flags at half-mast, memorials country wide for 32 students killed by a crazy man and for the troops, what? I mourn for the students so don't bother me.

300 million people maybe a million in uniform and we all have things to do to promote our version of freedom so don't bother me.

Depleted uranium, post traumatic stress disorder, missing arms, legs and other parts and disgusting extensions in country and where is the rest of the 300 million? We're busy "SO DON'T BOTHER ME"

A war of choice, over 3000 dead Americans many more maimed for life and the Iraqis not even mentioned! How sick is this? And we cannot be bothered. Tony 4/20/07

The strength of Reid's argument that *something* is "lost," is that he has a firm grasp upon that which is completely obvious.

But it is not a "war" that is (or was) lost. It is an occupation that failed to install a puppet government allied with the US in the so-called "global war on terror" (which is a war OF terror in reality).

So while Reid has said something that is obvious, he misses the essence. Yes, something is "lost" but it is not a war (which was "won" quickly) but an illegal, immoral occupation that failed. I think most Iraqis and the American progressive citizenry know this.

Well, stick a fork in the Democrats. The last politician I remember telling the public any shade of the truth was named Jimmy Carter. The rest is history...

MARK LENO

FINALLY a spine emerges.

Now let's see if any of the California legislators will step forward to reintroduce AJR39, the impeachment resolution that Assemblyman Paul Koretz had introduced last year. When the session ended, the bill died in the Rules Committee where it had been assigned by Speaker Nunez. It never was allowed to come to the floor for a vote.

As a Californian, I'd like to see that bill re-introduced in this session. Unfortunately, Koretz has left office and the current office holders seem to think that Speaker Nunez is against the bill...!!!

Frankly, the world has changed significantly since Koretz courageously stepped forward with Marc Leno as co-author and introduced the resolution to impeach both Bush and Cheney.

If you're in California, I'd invite you to contact your assemblyperson or state senator and urge the re-introduction of this important resolution. CALIFORNIA should be LEADING on this.

Not bad Reid, it only took you 7 years to find a pair.

Apparently to Republican politicians there is little difference between the military and, say, a football team.

rah-rah, go-go, (die-die) yaaaayyyy teeeeaaam! It's just a game and they are the armchair QBs. What, you don't root for the team?

Well said, MountainMike. But we'd better slam dunk some pro war Democrats out of office while we're at it. And how do those Repubs get off saying if you don't keep them in Iraq to be blown up or rot in Walter Reed, you're not supporting them?

The Bush-Cheney goals and methods in Iraq are highly unlikely to result in "victory," "success" or similar concepts in conventional terms.

A continued bloodbath is the probable outcome of current activities.

However, it may be possible to achieve some kind of reasonably positive outcome if new thinking is utilized, such as "soft power" diplomacy, information operations and constructive, honest psychological operations.

A new kinds of methods based on emerging discoveries about human psychology could be very helpful.

However, people other than the Bush-Cheney gang will need to lead the way on these. Honorable people in the US military and intelligence communities and elsewhere must step up to the plate.

It will be difficult to overcome the main problems that the invasion of Iraq was launched based on lies, and conducted by incompetent and/or deceptive people associated with the Bush-Cheney administration, and their neocon, war-profiteer, warmonger and chicken hawk associates and supporters.

For more views on this, see:

"Unconventional Human Intelligence Support: Navy SEAL's report"

PopulistAmerica.com
January 7, 2007

http://www.populistamerica.com/unconventional_human_intelligence_support

- - -

"Intelligence, psychology and human heart: All are needed for success in war and peace"

PopulistAmerica.com
March 31, 2007

http://www.populistamerica.com/intelligence_psychology_and_human_heart

"Triggering an angry backlash from Republicans who said the top Democrat had turned his back on the troops" - here we go again with the Republicans using troops as a prop to attack Democrats. And who has turned their backs on the troops since 2003?

Bush and Cheney turned their backs on all Americans when they manipulated intel and LIED to get us to invade. Every last single time Bush does something like call national guard units into combat, extend the combat cycle and calls troops back into combat when they have not completed the at home cycle, he is turning his back on the military families trying their best to plan around a father or mother being in combat or being at home. Who has turned their backs on vets that are homeless and on the streets? Then we have the back wards at Walter Reed. Who do you think were turning their back on our seriously injured troops. Bush can rush in after the scandal to get his photo op with injured troops as his props, but it belies the fact that this is the guy cutting funds to veterans while setting aside 20 million dollars for a Iraq victory celebration.

Then we have General Anthony Zinni back in 2003 getting fired because he was recommending more boots on the ground for the post invasion phase in order to secure Baghdad, secure the borders, take and hold ground. He was completely correct in his assessment, but Bush and Rumsfeld wanted to micro manage the war. Even if you support the invasion, you have to recognize the fact that Bush has turned his back on completely correct feedback from generals and retired generals in order to micromanage the war deeper and deeper into a quagmire.

Bush calls himself the decider, then Bush is a million percent to blame for our Iraqi quagmire. I sincerely hope voters slam dunk Bush Republicans out of office in 2008 as a loud and clear message that there is no way for them to defend THEIR quagmire.

And we owe it to our troops to have NO MORE QUAGMIRES.

Harry Reid...Patrick Leahy...maybe the Rip Van Winkle Democrats are awakening from their 6 year slumber and are surprised to see the state of the state???? Please, please, let it be so.