Politicians Duck for Cover at Talk of Gun Control
LOS ANGELES - THE response of America’s political leaders to the deaths at Virginia Tech was so muted it was no louder than a sob.But the largest mass shooting in US history did force reluctant Democratic leaders in Congress to confront an issue that divides their party and holds considerable political peril: gun control.
Advocates of stricter gun laws met Democratic leaders on Tuesday, determined to resurrect an issue that has been dormant since the shootings at Columbine High School in 1999. 
Senator Barbara Boxer elicited a pledge from the Senate judiciary committee chairman, Patrick Leahy, to hold a hearing on the shootings.
“We need to stand up and do something,” said Carolyn McCarthy, a Democratic member of the House of Representatives, whose husband was killed by a gunman’s rampage on the Long Island Railroad.
But Democrats on both sides of the issue were sceptical that the 33 deaths at Virginia Tech would change a political equation that has turned in the favour of gun rights advocates.
Among two firearms used by Cho Seung-hui was a legally bought Glock 19, loaded with a high-capacity magazine that could hold 15 bullets at a time. This magazine was illegal until 2004, when a federal law controlling the possession and sale of semi-automatic assault weapons lapsed.
The lapsed gun law was back in focus on Tuesday. If Democratic leaders cannot muster the votes to reinstate the full assault-weapons ban, some suggested that at least the clip-capacity portion could be passed.
But the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, boasts of a favourable rating from the National Rifle Association, which lobbies against gun control. House Democratic leaders are in no rush to jeopardise new Democratic members of Congress elected from Republican-leaning districts in Indiana, North Carolina and Kansas.
The National Rifle Association last year spent $US5.1 million ($6 million) supporting some political candidates and attacking others. The independent Political Moneyline website reported that 85 per cent of that expenditure went to Republican Party candidates.
“The gun lobby in this country is very aggressive,” said Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel died in the Columbine massacre. “They really punish people who don’t vote their way.”
So, in the absence of politicians, America’s sorrowful history of mourning and burying the victims of these shootings generally includes a parent or a priest who will say what the civic leaders cannot.
Mr Mauser, a gun-control advocate, was on his way to a television interview when he spoke by phone. He said it was too soon to know whether this would be a defining incident for the gun-control movement, and whether someone, at one of those 32 funerals, would speak out.
The political sensitivity of the issue was demonstrated by the response by the Virginian Governor, Tim Kaine, a Democrat, to a question about gun control late on Tuesday.
“For those who want to make this a political hobby horse they can ride, I’ve got nothing but loathing for them,” Mr Kaine said.
Earlier, he ordered an independent review of Virginia Tech’s handling of the massacre after 24 hours of criticism that officials waited too long to warn students of the potential danger.
“Our focus is on the families and helping this community heal, so to those who want to try to make this into some little crusade, I say take that elsewhere,” Mr Kaine said.
His words were read to Mr Mauser. “Oh boy,” he said. “That’s unbelievable. I don’t know how to begin to react to that, other than to say I’m calling the Governor’s office.
“It’s not a crusade, it’s about saving lives. The level of gun violence we have in this country is shameful. To think that easy-access laws are unrelated to that is just ludicrous. I’m very offended by that.”
Copyright © 2007. The Sydney Morning Herald.
Why do our politicians play cop out games. Gun control is nothing but a cop out and won’t do anything to stop gun violence.
The talk of gun control is as ridiculous as claiming steering wheels cause car accidents.
One thing our politicians never like to talk about is mental health. Mental health is at the root of most of these crimes, and much of the drug use and homelessness in this country.
Anyone who has suffered having an immediate family member with a mental health problem or addiction knows that it is virtually impossible to get someone into decent private mental health care or drug rehabilitation in this country unless you are among the top 10% income bracket.
Guns or the fear of them prevent as crimes as they cause.
How about that little old lady that shot her attacker last year in South Florida… Tyrone might not have jumped Granny if he had known she was packing a 380!
In fact, did you know that the homicide rate in Florida has fallen 52% since they passed the “Concealed Weapons” bill in 1987?
Did you know that guns are not permitted on the Virginia Tech campus? Yet that rule didn’t stop Fum Duk Park or whatever his name was from using guns to kill 33 people on the campus.
Did you know that about four years ago at Appalachian Law School (in Virginia) a guy killed a Dean, a professor and another student but was stopped in his tracks by two other students who had gone to their cars and retrieved their guns?
In 1997, the assistant principal of the high school in Pearl Mississippi went to his car and got his handgun and captured a student who had killed three people in the school.
Finally, were you aware that over 7000 people a year are murdered with BLUNT OBJECTS? Are we going to ban 2 by 4’s and rocks?
Perhaps the money spent on gun control and “the war on drugs” would be better spent by improving mental health care.
What kind of a country do we live in? A deranged young man can walk into a store, buy an assault weapon and enough clips to decimate a classroom while the Supreme Court is banning an abortion procedure knowing that it could be necessary to save a woman’s life. The term ‘Right to life” doesn’t refer to the living.
kathyodat
A deranged young man can walk into a store, buy an assault weapon and enough clips to decimate a classroom
He didn’t buy an assault weapon he bought a hand gun. Assault weapons are illegal to own.
What the media intentionally leaves out of the news. I bet you gun control nuts never hear about this one or any of the others that happen all the time around the country. Our fascist government and corporate controlled news media hide information like this from the American public. Gun control is population control in a nut shell.
Wednesday, April 18, 2007
When mass killers meet armed resistance.
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/when-mass-killers-meet-armed-resistance.html
It took place at a university in Virginia. A student with a grudge, an immigrant, pulled a gun and went on a shooting spree. It wasn’t Virginia Tech at all. It was the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, not far away. You can easily drive from the one school to the other, just take a trip down Route 460 through Tazewell.
It was January 16, 2002 when Peter Odighizuwa came to campus. He had been suspended due to failing grades. Odighizuwa was angry and waving a gun calling on students to “come get me”. The students, seeing the gun, ran. A shooting spree started almost immediately. In seconds Odighizuwa had killed the school dean, a professor and one student. Three other students were shot as well, one in the chest, one in the stomach and one in the throat.
Many students heard the shots. Two who did were Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges. Mikael was outside the school having just returned to campus from lunch when he heard the shots. Tracy was inside attending class. Both immediately ran to their cars. Each had a handgun locked in the vehicle.
Bridges pulled a .357 Magnum pistol and he later said he was prepared to shoot to kill if necessary. He and Gross both approached Odighizuwa at the same time from different directions. Both were pointing their weapons at him. Bridges yelled for Odighizuwa to drop his weapon. When the shooter realized they had the drop on him he threw his weapon down. A third student, unarmed, Ted Besen, approached the killer and was physically attacked.
But Odighizuwa was now disarmed. The three students were able to restrain him and held him for the police. Odighizuwa is now in prison for the murders he committed. His killing spree ended when he faced two students with weapons. There would be no further victims that day, thanks to armed resistance
Provoice
Perhaps the money spent on gun control and “the war on drugs” would be better spent by improving mental health care.
How about putting some of that money in public education by mandating gun safety education to all grades, starting with pre-school. As far as the war on drugs it is responsible for a major part of violence in this country as it is. End prohibition and you will see a major drop in gun violence in this country.
Guns are dumb. You know it. I know it. We all know it. The only thing that is dumber is free access to them.
Ruffle your feathers all you want about your right to bear arms. In the end, guns, especially handguns, are an easy way for weak-minded, courage-challenged losers, like the Virgina shooter, to kill innocent people at will. That’s all they are good for, empowering those who feel weak.
In an intelligent, caring, forward-thinking society, guns would not be widely or freely available. But then again, we live in the heart of Dumbfuckistan, so what should we expect?
Go ahead, shoot me!
“…he said ‘you be a good boy–don’t ever play with guns’”–Jonny Cash
Ahhh, folks, If you will notice, the above article originated in Australia. Australia instituted strict gun control laws a few years back and has seen a dramatic decrease in gun violence. The case for serious gun control is dramatically proven in that country. -Please gun lovers, before you start, spare me the NRA agitprop that the violence level there has gone back up. It has not.
The effort to get a handle on gun violence succeeded there because of a generous “buy-back” program that really encouraged people to turn loose of their guns. -Though I’ll have to conceed, the gun lobby’s success in convincing Americans that they are not real men if they don’t have their heat-under-their-seat, will make it more dificult in the U.S. It won’t be easy to rise above that mentality.
You’re right, kdawe - the US is a gun-loving nation and it won’t be easy to rise over that mentality. That we also seem to revere violence over reason makes it a particularly toxic brew.
I’m for more spending on mental health AND more gun control at the semi-automatic weapon level. Target practice and hunting, no prob - you don’t need semi-automatics for that (and I’ve done both and have the guns for those purposes). When we get into semi-automatics, that’s a different category. They are DESIGNED for three purposes: combat, police work, and crime.
Colorado
“Guns are dumb.”
Your right they don’t have a brain, what’s your excuse?
You’re from Dumbfuckistan, well that explains a lot. Where is it by the way?
politicians love to make laws regarding pedophiles- why don’t they make a list of folks who have convinced two mental health clinics that they are a danger to themselves and others. A list like that should be done just like there is a list of terrorists who cannot get on airplanes. In the face of not having enough mental health beds for the mentally ill, the least we can do is to make it difficult for them to own a gun.
Gov Keane warned the public not to use gun control as their “hobbyhorse” at a time when people are grieving- tell that to the Brady family -Hinkley paralyzed brady.
Gove Keane should welcome gun control measures- these particular two guns bought by Cho will cost Virginia at least a billion dollars in law suits.
Let the NRA pay that! No that would be the taxpayers who are to stupid to vote for gun control.
This is from 2003.
Gun Laws do Not Reduce Criminal Violence According to New Study
Gary Mauser, Professor Simon Fraser University
Release Date: November 27, 2003
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=570
Vancouver, BC - Restrictive firearm legislation has failed to reduce gun violence in Australia, Canada, or Great Britain. The policy of confiscating guns has been an expensive failure, according to a new paper The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales, released today by The Fraser Institute.
Buyback has not cut gun violence: study
October 23, 2006
http://www.populistamerica.com/buyback_has_not_cut_gun_violence__study
AUSTRALIA’S guns buyback has not reduced rates of gun murder or suicide, a new study says.
The paper, published in the British Journal of Criminology and written by pro-gun lobbyists Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran, found the buyback of 640,000 guns at a cost of some $500 million failed to make Australia safer.
Even if gun violenc is down in Australia other forms of violence has increased. Before gun control in Australia home invasions were all but nonexistent, now there common occurrences, rape is up. Armed robbery is up, burglary is up. Guns do more than kill people they protect people.
Besides compared to the number of gun on the streets were not to violent at all.
iammyself April 19th, 2007 2:05 pm
When we get into semi-automatics, that’s a different category. They are DESIGNED for three purposes: combat, police work, and crime.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. I bet you don’t even own a gun and it’s oblivious you’ve never been hunting. Bolt actions are far more accurate at a distance but up close give me a semi-automatic any day.
Washington DC is the capital of Dumbfuckistan dude. That is what the D stands for. Assault weapons are perfectly legal now. The law changes made earlier all had a timetable to them and the previous Congress let that lapse. No one paid attention to it when it happened in the media though. we were all too busy looking for Anna Nicole’s baby’s Daddy. They found him though, he was in Dumbfuckistan.
Metamorph
Gove Keane should welcome gun control measures- these particular two guns bought by Cho will cost Virginia at least a billion dollars in law suits.
Yea just think their fail gun safe school zone policy set this up. If some of them students or facility members had concealed carry permits and been allowed to carry on campus it most likely never went past the first two killings. If any body is to blame here blame the gun control nuts because every where gun control is found higher levels of innocence people are victims of violent crime.
What the media intentionally leaves out of the news. I bet you gun control nuts never hear about this one or any of the others that happen all the time around the country. Our fascist government and corporate controlled news media hide information like this from the American public. Gun control is population control in a nut shell.
Wednesday, April 18, 2007
When mass killers meet armed resistance.
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/when-mass-killers-meet-armed-resistance.html
It took place at a university in Virginia. A student with a grudge, an immigrant, pulled a gun and went on a shooting spree. It wasn’t Virginia Tech at all. It was the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, not far away. You can easily drive from the one school to the other, just take a trip down Route 460 through Tazewell.
It was January 16, 2002 when Peter Odighizuwa came to campus. He had been suspended due to failing grades. Odighizuwa was angry and waving a gun calling on students to “come get me”. The students, seeing the gun, ran. A shooting spree started almost immediately. In seconds Odighizuwa had killed the school dean, a professor and one student. Three other students were shot as well, one in the chest, one in the stomach and one in the throat.
Many students heard the shots. Two who did were Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges. Mikael was outside the school having just returned to campus from lunch when he heard the shots. Tracy was inside attending class. Both immediately ran to their cars. Each had a handgun locked in the vehicle.
Bridges pulled a .357 Magnum pistol and he later said he was prepared to shoot to kill if necessary. He and Gross both approached Odighizuwa at the same time from different directions. Both were pointing their weapons at him. Bridges yelled for Odighizuwa to drop his weapon. When the shooter realized they had the drop on him he threw his weapon down. A third student, unarmed, Ted Besen, approached the killer and was physically attacked.
But Odighizuwa was now disarmed. The three students were able to restrain him and held him for the police. Odighizuwa is now in prison for the murders he committed. His killing spree ended when he faced two students with weapons. There would be no further victims that day, thanks to armed resistance
neoconned
Washington DC is the capital of Dumbfuckistan dude. That is what the D stands for. Assault weapons are perfectly legal now.
No there not, there still illegal for the average citizen to own.
neoconned
The law changes made earlier all had a timetable to them and the previous Congress let that lapse.
First and foremost the semi-automatic rifles you’re talking about weren’t assault weapons.
By the way Washington DC has one of the highest crime rates in the country. Until just a few weeks ago all guns were banned in Washington DC. Guess what the Supreme Court ruled the ban unconstitutional. Watch the violent crime rate take a drastic nose dive once law abiding citizens rearm. It will happen quickly.
What is so radical and extreme about limiting easy access to automatic weapons? When I was growing up there were guns in the house and my Dad belonged to NRA. He later dropped out because he said they were getting too extreme, defending people’s right to bear automatic weapons.
O.K., I can imagine some NRA members saying that many guns can be easily converted to automatic weapons. But why not still try to make this a little more difficult? A few lives saved would be worth it maybe? Yes? No? Is that such a flaming liberal idea?
Maybe some NRA members would say that the 2nd amendment should protect all guns, regardless of how many people could die before an assailant could be stopped or run out of ammo. After all, it is the principle that this should be beyond the power of the State to touch something like this - it should be sacrosanct - imagine an assault rifle hanging over the fireplace of the little homestead of the militia member, just waiting to defend all that is dear from a foreign invader.
So then I ask, why not a thermo-nuclear device? I mean, we need to keep up with the times. If a foreign invader or lib government gone mad is coming for you, you are going to need something more up to date. Automatic weapons are over one hundred years old!!!
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. But people who want to kill a lot of people don’t mess around with guns. They stay abreast of the times and use the state-of-the art means for such things.
I’m sure they are tired of my liberal rant.
I made a commentary recently on this issue, which i said i was in favor of being able to carry weapons on your person to protect yourself. Well this is one event that i had in mind where if you were armed things could go differently. I had used the Montreal Dawson campus shooting, and this one is pretty much worse in the tragic departement. I am from Canada so i have an outsider`s perspective. But i think being able to carry weapons and firearms on your person does not go against the idea of restraining automatic rifles and heavy powered weapons. Its just that i dont trust other people to take care of my security, when most often when help comes its already way too late and the damage is done.
People dont carry guns and weapons in Japan, im guessing, is because there is not much to defend yourself against, much like norway. Canada is worse, and unfortunatly, the US is a couple of notches worse off in the likelyhood of getting attacked by some violent troubled kid, of which virginia tech is a good example.
Gun Control does work…just take a look at this
… In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953,
> about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
> and exterminated.
> ——————————————————–
> … In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5
> million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> ——————————————————–
> … Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13
> million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded
> up and exterminated.
> ——————————————————–
> … China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
> political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> ——————————————————–
> … Guatemala established gun control in 1964. >From 1964 to 1981,
> 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
> ——————————————————–
> … Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
> Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ——————————————————–
> … Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one
> million ‘educated’ people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
> and exterminated.
> ——————————————————
> Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because
> of gun control: 56 million.
> —————————————————
> It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new
> law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own
> government, a program costing Australian taxpayers more than $500 million
> dollars. The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are
> up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide,
> armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!) In the state of
> Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that
> while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and
> criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the previous 25
> years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has
> changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now
> are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic
> increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians
> are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such
> monumental effort and expense was expended in “successfully ridding
> Australian society of guns.” The Australian experience and the other
> historical facts above prove it. You won’t see this data on the American
> evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians
> disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save
> lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding
> citizens
>
> The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of
> this history lesson. With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are
> subjects. If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control
> message to all of your friends.
“You don’t know what you’re talking about. I bet you don’t even own a gun and it’s oblivious you’ve never been hunting. Bolt actions are far more accurate at a distance but up close give me a semi-automatic any day.”
rickster469,
Quit showing what an ignorant troll you are.
For the record, I was a member of the NRA when I was 12, learning to shoot with my .22 Mossberg. Then moved on to my single barrel 20 guage Mossberg (with which I won a trap shooting comp), then an over and under Ithaca 12 guage, which I used mostly for bird hunting (with an occasional wild pig and deer hunt). I still own two of those guns, and it’s none of your damn business which two.
And thank you for making my point: Semi-automatics are used for combat, police work, and crime. Which category do you fall in, oblivious?
“People dont carry guns and weapons in Japan, im guessing, is because there is not much to defend yourself against, much like norway. Canada is worse, and unfortunatly, the US is a couple of notches worse off in the likelyhood of getting attacked by some violent troubled kid, of which virginia tech is a good example.”
Catseyes,
The US is more than a couple of notches worse than the others. We are a society steeped in violence and we play it out every day. It is our culture of violence that needs to change. Until then, we need gun control.
Dear gawhite. Nobody likes my idea about allowing personal ownership of thermonuclear weapons? What is so bad about it?
Here is my reasoning. If any attempt to control guns in anyway leads to genocide my the lib-gone-mad State, then by giving everyone even more powerful weapons, we guarantee a level of democracy such as the world has never seen!!!
The formula is simple: ALL gun control (as you point out) leads to tyranny so all lack of any weapon control leads to democracy. Right? Wrong? hm???
I live in the biggest city in Australia, Sydney.I am 62 and the incidence of multiple gun deaths has been extremely rare.Most of the gun deaths, I suspect, are suicides as would be many of the American gun deaths.Our govt.bought in stict gun control laws and a buyback plan after a deranged young man went beserk at a Tasmanian tourist restaurant, killing about 35 people.We have had a spate of knifing murders in recent months, which seem to be drug or “honour” related killings, but the incidence of gun related deaths does not appear to have changed from the casual perusal of our newspapers.The statiticians may contradict me here;it is simply an observation.The number of gun deaths are about 300 a year in a population of 20 million.. .0015%.The American figure, I’m told, is 32000 in a population of 300 million…. .010%.Pretty similar!
Much of this discussion is nothing more than a continuation of the non-stop right-wing propaganda enema Americans have been subjected to for the past quarter century.
Perhaps the tragic VT incident will be the point at which we can replace rhetoric and propaganda with facts, and that Americans can connect the dots between the facts without being considered traitors.
FACT #1
The magazine the killer used to improve his injury and death tally on April 16, 2007 was illegal prior to the Repulican-controlled Congress deliberately allowing the assault weapons ban to sunset in 2004.
FACT #2
A 9mm assault weapon has no purpose other than high-speed killing of humans (no, it would not save you from a charging grizzly bear, moose, hippo or elephant).
These are but two of the many facts in this case that demonstrates role the gun lobby and the politicians they control played in helping the shooter achieve such a high injury and death tally.
If Tim Kaine and others are allowed to circumvent the facts, future incidents will be far worse than this one.
I’m going to try to take a step back here and look at this picture of violence from a little more distance. We have a second amendment and that will not change. This country, since the pilgrims arrived a Plymouth Rock have had or felt the need to defend themselves. And, as the country moved westward in to lawless areas, to not have a gun was folly. There was more gun violence in the 1850’s in California than there is today. And because the USA was the melting pot of the world, there have always been different groups of immigrants vying for control of their territory. Add to this the hatred between the slave owning south and the free north and you have another issue that continues to this day.
In Europe, they had many centuries of violence. Might meant right. But I think that in Europe, after the World Wars, the people began to become more enlightened and realized that war was no longer an option if we were to survive as a species. Meanwhile, here in the States, movies have glorified violence and the computer games our children play today have a lot of backing from the military. Somebody wants to keep us divided and war like.
Our foreign policy over the past 200 years shows this clearly, especially in Central and South America. We are still stuck in the past where might means right. And our domestic policy focuses on only the violent and negative. As in Fighting for Columbine, there is always some new threat that must be attacked. The same can be said of our foreign policy. Just as in George Orwell’s 1984, we are now constantly at war and lies are truth and truth is lies.
We have been raised, almost like the Spartans, to lead a life of conquest through invasion and plunder. Meanwhile, look at the long histories of the East Asian cultures. While certainly not peaceful at all times, they seem to have long ago realized that we are all connected. If I hurt you, I am also hurting myself. They developed cultures that respected the elders and non violence towards all – even animals. They believed in Karma. If you lead a good life here on Earth, you will go on to the next stage of development.
It’s time we reminded ourselves that we aren’t savages who need to lead a savage life. We have developed societies, laws – civilization – so that we can all do our best to live together. We need to grow up. There are countless other problems in this world but the bottom line is that we need to grow up. CEOs remind me of preschoolers who won’t share some toy. “It’s mine!” the say. And since any parent knows that their children need to lean how to share, so do the small elite and wealthy, who are the equivalent of the preschoolers in our nation today.
And we need to teach our leaders that just because you can beat up this smaller boy, it is still wrong. Our politicians are the equivalent of the bullies we all have run up against in school. It’s time we grew up, period.
If the students in one classrom at VT could have found a way to unanimously resist the armed agressor they could have stopped him. Likewise if like minded Americans would unite against our current administration we could instantly stem the carnage we have caused in Iraq which is much worse on a daily basis than what we experienced last week in Virginia.
Everyone talks about gun “control” or the lack of accountability of the VT security or whatever…and no one ever talks about what a sick society we have become. When your so-called liberal representatives don’t want to touch the issue because they know it is a “loser” for them, then you know you’ve lost. It’s all about losing and winning and not being perceived as a loser, bla bla bla. Now here we are confronted, once again, by a “loser” with a gun.
We are a sick society in need of a serious high colonic.
What really caused such a high death toll, dude, is the sheer neolithic incompetence of the University President and the Chief of campus security.
After all the arguments for and gun control we finally read the main cause of the catastrophy . Raging fires,both natural and arson,are expeditiously extinguished by skilled and dedicated fire-fighters with a phenomenal saving of human lives . Daily earhquakes in the schools of Hokaido , Japan,are rendered far less lethal by the constant and instant practise of survival drill . Ambulances “run” red lights to save lives.
The lapse of two minutes , never mind two hours confirms the wise suggestion that both the administration but especially the security provider should be removed.
Continuing to read ” My Pet Goat ” with a deer-in-the-headlights expression seems instantly resolute in comparison.
The lapse of two hours
I notice it didn’t take long for rickster469, the apparent mouthpiece for the NRA, to file his first volley against an anti-gun article.
Rationalize all you want. Guns kill. The only purpose for guns is to kill. The number of incidents where guns prevented crime is so low that their very occurrence is cause for a news item.
Over thirty thousand die, a larger number permanently wounded or disfigured, each and every year. It is as though a small war were being waged within the American borders each year. Maybe you are comfortable with that. I would be ashamed of it.
The massacre happened because an angry young man was able to arm himself with assault weapons. Bush allowed the ban to lapse on his watch so his hands are painted with the blood of those kids who died.
The need for a citizen militia has long since expired. The need to give access to weapons to people regardless of their lack of intelligence or integrity is never justified.
Now, how many expletives can you fire back to that one, rickster469?
“FACT #1
The magazine the killer used to improve his injury and death tally on April 16, 2007 was illegal prior to the Repulican-controlled Congress deliberately allowing the assault weapons ban to sunset in 2004.”
Wow! You mean to say Cho would have been BREAKING THE LAW? Why, I’m sure that would have stopped him.
A $5 tax per round of ammunition ought to help things.
Iraq is an example of a culture based on revenge and violence in a country awash with guns. I think our soldiers would welcome effective gun control programs. They are trying to establish security by acting to disarm the population of its AK47’s, Uzis’s, and bomb-making materials. When stopped at a checkpoint, or busting down doors, the soldiers are not looking for pamphlets; they are searching for arms and those who use them to kill civilians and soldiers. I submit that the present mission of our forces in Iraq is a policy to institute gun control so that civil war can be prevented and security established so that democracy and the daily business of life can move forward. In the state where I live, gun control is a joke. You can keep a gun in the house without a permit and your vehicle is considered to be an extension of the home so you may have a gun in the vehicle as well. I have been threatened with a gun twice in traffic with a handgun held up by the driver and waved to make its message clear. Police officers have told me that they consider each traffic stop to be a life or death situation and treat every driver as though they are armed and willing to shoot. They admit that the number of handguns and automatic weapons make their job more dangerous. A concealed weapons law was passed in this state against the wishes of many police chiefs, officers, and state troopers. We have over 30,000 deaths per year from gun violence. I believe that the only people who need handguns and military weaponry are the peace officers and soldiers tasked with keeping order. Ordinary people who wish to serve and protect the community and take on the awesome and profound responsiblity of life and death decisions in violent situations can take the arduous training and submit to background checks and the tests required to become peace officers and soldiers. This country requires more of its licensed drivers to operate motor vehicles; age of consent, a written test, a drivers test, and proof of insurance before being allowed on the street than it does for gun ownership.
commonman03
I notice it didn’t take long for rickster469, the apparent mouthpiece for the NRA, to file his first volley against an anti-gun article.
I don’t even belong to the NRA. I just an American citizen protecting every right I can. I will not be a subject to the state.
commonman03
Rationalize all you want. Guns kill.
You need to learn how to rationalize; I’ve never seen a gun jump up and shoot someone.
commonman03
The only purpose for guns is to kill.
Your wrong there, guns are great for hunting, protection and just plain shooting.
commonman03
The number of incidents where guns prevented crime is so low that their very occurrence is cause for a news item.
Wrong
Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below the national average and remains below the national average to this day.3
Fact: The serious crime rate in Texas fell 50% faster than the national average after a concealed carry law was passed in 1995.
Fact: When citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons:
• Murder rates drop 8%
• Rape rates fall 5%
• Aggravated assaults drop 7%
Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass
public shootings fall dramatically after
right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are
enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up
to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.
Fact: “ . . . a detailed study of the major surveys completed in the past 20 years or more provides
no evidence of any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and
the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in
various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the
apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.”77
You need to read the following booklet, it’s free and the NRA is not associated with it in any way.
Gun Facts
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.1/GunFacts4-1-Print.pdf
All data is referenced to actual government studies and organizations. Something you will very rarely see from the gun control lobby but I understand you gun control nuts want to do anything you can to control other people.
commonman03
The massacre happened because an angry young man was able to arm himself with assault weapons.
You’re not even smart enough to know what an assault weapon is.
commonman03
The need for a citizen militia has long since expired.
Where have you been, Our government is turning into a police state the likes of which is worst than Hitler’s Germany. What do you expect seeing how the Bush family was a supporter of the Hitler regime?
Has anybody ever noticed how gun control advocates always quote opinion pieces that never actually reference studies or link to them studies? They do this intentionally so that you will get discouraged and give up checking into the actual research itself. That don’t work for me.
Paul M
A $5 tax per round of ammunition ought to help things.
You must be a believer in the free market concept. It doesn’t get any freer than the black market.
The best statistics for national and regional numbers on gun death comes from the fbi and records compiled from police districts. Local figures in my home state show an average of two murders per day in the city of New Orleans. Last year saw 400 murders. To date, there have been over 200 homicides in the city with six months left in 2007. I don’t know how the crimes are broken out by use of gun knife, car or kitchen sink. This figure is higher than a rate of 300 homicides in the nation of Japan for last year. The state of La. was the “murder capital of the nation” in 1998. My friends who are policemen and those I ask casually would have a less dangerous atmosphere to work in and better chances at living a long life if there was a sensible and effective program for gun control.
philight, think about your Iraq example for a minute. The troops are there (on a hoplessly botched wild goose chase, but that’s a subject for another thread) trying to disarm secular/factional militias, not the common man. The quagmire they’re in is a perfect example of why:
1) You can never disarm a large group of people who want to be armed, be they thugs, “patriots” or just good ol’ John Q if he wants to be armed. What you CAN do is turn John Q into a criminal.
2) You can’t trust the state to decide who gets the arms. Right now the Iraqi security apparatus is another word for “Shiite militia.”
3) Since the thugs are going to have arms, and the state can’t be trusted to protect ol’ John Q, what is he going to do? He’s going to fall back on his own resources, if he can. That’s why the US is ALLOWING one (full auto) AK-47 and two magazines for every Iraqi household. And they call US the “land of the free…”
What say we put this gun control issue to a vote? Let’s have a binding referendum on guns to resolve the issue democratically instead of dictatorially. We need a little tyranny of the majority here.
A binding referendum to resolve the gun control issue would also let politicians off the hook. Are you pols listening?
rickster 469
Go in peace. Do no harm.
You obviously have issues if you feel the need to lash out so vehemently. I hope you are able to find a community with which you can share your views.
“Where have you been, Our government is turning into a police state the likes of which is worst than Hitler’s Germany. What do you expect seeing how the Bush family was a supporter of the Hitler regime?”
Well, I certainly agree with that!
But, rickster, do you honestly believe that a lightly armed (and even hand-held assault rifles are considered light arms) are going to stop the very well armed US and national forces? C’mon man, this isn’t 1775!
Like I said before (and, you were wrong about me then), this society is steeped in violence. A well armed but hostile “citizenry” is not a safe environment. Give Americans more guns and we won’t need a police state to kill us.