It is sad watching the complete personal and politcal demise of a once decent man.

... ditto for the 91 murder victims mentioned in this article...

McCain lost all credibility and integrity during the 2000 primary season when he let George Bush and his sick friends trash McCain's family. He showed himself to be a disgusting little man who would do anything for power, who would let his political enemies attack his wife and daughter, and then suck up to those people afterwards. There is no decency there, no integrity, no honesty, no spine.

Does Coco Solo, Panama really count as part of the United States for the purposes of qualifying as a presidential candidate?

That aside, whether or not surviving as a POW makes one a hero, McCain the legislator was involved in the Keating-Five that was at the center of the Savings and Loan bail-out that we the people are still paying off...

The issue of corruption aside, what about character? Mocking ugly girls, calling vietnamese "Gooks" and divorcing his crippled wife for a mistress?

And healthwise, he's not much better off than Cheney, mangled by torture with 3 recurrences of melanoma already.

And lastly, the "straighttalk" express seems to have derailed again, this time in an Iraqi Market...

Maybe he's lost his lucky feather again...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-02/19/067r-021900-idx.html

ricg has it right. McCain became a Repug whore after he got "swift boated". He knew that he could not successfully run for Prez again if he remained a principled and moral representative of the people. Like Dorian Gray, he traded his soul to the devil.

Vince,

What was once decent about McCain?

Well I don't know how Orwellian this stunt was, it's difficult for the average American to easily understand what's going on. Yesterday we had a top jarhead revealing how wonderful Anbar province is becoming. At the same time, Iraqis march and demand that the US leave. So McCain's stunt is out there to obfuscate, debate, confuse, and keep the war alive.
I take particular issue with why Paul calls McCain a "genuine war hero". The guy was dropping bombs in a horrible, bloody police action that resulted in the deaths of millions. More disconcerting is propaganda about the Vietnam era, which war criminal McCain sometimes taps into. It goes a little like this: "If [the US] had only been allowed to unleash her full military fury in Vietnam, then we could have won the war". Madness, pure madness.

More deception, and possibly self-delusion on the part of McCain and the Bush-Cheney bunch who launched the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

McCain seems to still be living in the Vietnam War ... and he believes that we should have killed more Vietnamese and sacrificed more US troops to "win."

We need intelligent and honorable solutions, not more of the same. Take a look at:

"U.S. public relations on Iraq, Iran need truth and honesty"

PopulistAmerica.com

http://www.populistamerica.com/us_public_relations_on_iraq_iran_need_truth_and_honesty

- - -

"Going in circles: Vietnam, Iraq, calls for impeachment"

PopulistAmerica.com

http://www.populistamerica.com/going_in_circles_vietnam_iraq_calls_for_impeachment

I believe you'll find Paul calls McCain a "genuine war hero". because he was. His years as a POW earned him that title. I suspect those that weren't there and haven't been since can't undestand the difference.

I find the suggestion that Sen McCain was a war criminal or not a decent man offensive in the extreme and will treat it with the contempt it deserves.

Though we disagree with folks on the other side we do not have to resort to the disrespect and downright lies the Rove bunch resorts to.

Richard: its seemed to me that McCain has at times supported good proposals and programs and attempted, at times, to go against the Repug grain, though I may not be as well-informed as I thought.

I do not know McCain'c class background or much of his history. He was, from what I understand a prisoner of war for a number of years and that must have been very difficult.

But the Vietnam war was a murderous assault on a peasant country by US imperial might. It is not something to be proud of, the slaughter of some 3 million people and the babies that are still born in Vietnam due to the Dioxyn the US dropped on their food and them.

In fact, when the US realized pulling out was inevitable, Nixon increased the air assault to bomb them back to the stone age from what I uderstand.

The little foray in to Cambodia slaughtered some 600,000 by most accounts, the majority of them civilians.

Then there is the 57,000 dead Americans and their families and the subsequent treatment at home.

What has McCain said about all this? What position has he taken on the unprovoked attack on the people of Iraq?

I have some sympathy with his experience in Vietnam and it separates him from the imbecile and draft dodger Bush obviously. But it doesn't give him carte blanche.

He's an enemy of working people.

Besides all of this war hero/war criminal debate: http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Hughes0712.htm

The guy's also a nepotist. And just like Bush, McCain's father was shifty as well.

-P-

You are all missing the point.
"The media", at least in this country are owned by a bunch of rich white guys. They aren't liberal, they are corporate. And what passes as news is realy only low grade info-tainment.
The media aint liberal it's corporate owned.
Repeat it.
Learn it.
Dispute it when you hear some ignoramus say it.
The media aint liberal it's corporate owned.
The media aint liberal it's corporate owned.
The media aint liberal it's corporate owned.
The media aint liberal it's corporate owned.
The media aint liberal it's corporate owned.

In our deluded, post 911 world, virtually anyone who is missing in action, injured, or killed becomes an automatic "Hero".

Meanwhile, in the real world, McCain was captured and injured while engaged in the Vietnam obscenity (as distinguished from the Iraq obscenity) and no matter how stiff he kept his upper lip, he's still a war criminal in my book.

Remember the Jessica Lynch fabrications. But the tragedy->hero conversion is an old ploy. You can go back to the space shuttle disasters, and probably much further. Corporate media, nervous politicians and bureaucrats, etc. naturally put spin on tragedy. A hero is someone who goes well beyond the call of duty, his/her capacity, role, etc. to selflessly help others. So sure, there are war heros, civilian heros, good samaritans, etc.

And there are just plain tragic events, which should sometimes give us pause for thought: Should we have been there in the first place? Was everything done to ensure safety? Will there be a (genuinely) independent review board? And so on... Whenever something insane is going on, politicans and their corporate media lackeys go on a hero-hunt. Probably sells more copy, gets more votes.

Paul is right. That's why Pat Tillman's death was used by the administration to distract people who were waking up to the reality of the war.

Don the Engineer is right: The media in this country is hardly liberal. (Read the British papers The Guardian and The Independent for comparison.)

"I believe you'll find Paul calls McCain a 'genuine war hero'. because he was. His years as a POW earned him that title. I suspect those that weren't there and haven't been since can't undestand the difference."

'Those that weren't there' -- like the current prominent members of the Bush government. But you bring up a point that is most distrubing about McCain: a man who bravely suffered deprivation and torture while imprisoned by the Vietnamese won't stand up to the Bushies. What have they got on him -- or is it simply his massive ambition? Either way, I think it disqualifies him from the presidency.

Aside from McCain's ditzy ramblings on the safety of Iraq, Mr. Campos failed to mention the unbelievable but telling reaction of his GOP Baghdad market mates: Sen. Lindsay Graham babbled on about buying five rugs for $5.00 dollars and Hoosier Rep. Mike Pence compared the heavily guarded bazaar in Iraq to an outdoor market in Indiana.

In its way, this is a perfect illustration of why the GOP has created a failure over there and why we have lost; they talk about bargains and ignore the reality of the situation on the ground while, in the suburbs of the city, Iraqis continue to be killed by car bombs and no one mentions that, according to David Shuster of MSNBC April 9th, in the seven weeks before Bush's 'surge,' 29 Americans died; in the month since the 'surge' started, 54 Americans have died. Is this what Republicans mean when they say things are improving over there?

That light at the end of the tunnel isn't victory, it's just another candle lit for the dead.

McCain was another soldier in a tragic and pointless police action. Getting caught and tortured for years qualifies as tragic beyond any shadow of a doubt. But it is not the same as Rambo II (second blood?) putting his life on the line and rescuing a whole bunch of POW's (undoubtedly heroic, but of course wholly fictional). Evidently the public needs heroes, real or otherwise? Myths are important glue for inherently volatile politics.

It was Aldous Huxley in his "Perennial Philosophy" who defines genuine heroism at one point in his book. It is the person who darts out into rushing traffic -- disregarding his own safety without even thinking about it -- to rescue a stranger's child. Or the soldier who runs onto the battlefield, bullets whizzing, to bring back fallen comrades, etc. Huxley goes a step further and suggests that the person who can maintain this action permanently, and not just in the heat of particular events, is what the mystics term a "saint." But that's miles ahead of tragedy and fictional heroes. You need the genuine hero, and then the permanent hero, in order to begin talking about that.

C9ould McCain be a potential Manchurian Candidate?--oh silly me all the front runners in both major parties are Manchurian candidates!

Good headline and basic idea, but since when is McCain a genuine war hero?
Hello?
He dropped bombs on and blew up Vietnamese families.
OMG.
He flew 23 bombing flights over North Vietnam.
Were he a hero, he would have refused to fly those missions.
Read "The Horrors of Senator John McCain" by Cockburn and St. Clair and get educated on this guy:
http://www.counterpunch.org/mccain.html

Thomas More April 10th, 2007 2:04 pm

"I believe you'll find Paul calls McCain a "genuine war hero". because he was. His years as a POW earned him that title."

True, but as Vince Lawrence (April 10th, 2007 11:14 am)
said: It is sad watching the complete personal and politcal demise of a once decent man.

We all have a long history, Tom - some of it is worthy of praise, some of it is not. Let's not fool ourselves about a war hero turned "rubber stamper". The audacity of an illegal invasion and occupation of a non-threatening country doesn't deserve a hug.

Nietzche--Not very likely. He and his heiress second wife just bought TWO $10 MILLION condos in Phoenix. We can only hope that after this bizarre campaign is over, they retire there for good.

mccain seems to be more of a stepford republican with each passing day.

maybe he gets a piece of the pie when the real aim of this war is revealed.

it's the control of the resources in the entire region.

think soviet missiles in cuba felt tense?

imagine what having a permanent military and economic superpower parked next door to you, 20 mins. or less from all types of serious repercussions from missiles, to closing any major waterway for trade, to opening (or closing)iraqi oil spigots on a lark, will do for your sense of security.

look at a map for awhile.

iraq will be a mess until the gov't there enacts all the laws promised to those that are the president's "base".

we may also find out what the v.p.'s energy task force discussions were about.

this is what mccain must be hoping to inherit. grovelling crumbs at the bootsoles of the masters.

McCain and the black - POW/MIA - flag show that the right continues to distort the history of the Vietnam War.

I believe McCain to be a genuine war hero for enduring torture and refusing release because others had been in prison longer than he had.

Once he got home and back into the arms of his life of privilege he little by little forgot what is was like to be a member of an oppressed group.

It is not possible to be a member of two classes at once. McCain should move to a lower middle class neighborhood and stay there. I believe he would again become the decent man who returned from Viet Nam.

Some good points.

"I believe McCain to be a genuine war hero for enduring torture and refusing release because others had been in prison longer than he had."

Plus the men that were in the POW camp with him considered him to be a genuine hero............good enough for me.

As to refusing lawful orders or you are a war criminal? I would suggest you served in a different Corp than I did. They can shoot you for that.

Viet Nam and Iraq....both terrible, but Viet Nam, though stupid, was incremental and overseen by 4 different Presidents. Iraq was a war of arrogant choice made by proven incompetants at this point. The only real similarity is how do we disengage?

As to calling the enemy Gooks, and they were the enemy.........when people are shooting at you and attacking you any way they can.......you don't feel like calling them something polite. You should hear what they were calling us!

"It is sad watching the complete personal and politcal demise of a once decent man".

Gail...I believe he's still a decent person, at least I hope so, but you are sadly correct on the rest of it.

Richard....I'm hoping you are wrong and we don't have Imperial goals. We haven't demonstrated any Imperailism in modern times yet, lets not!

Lets just find a quick way to bring these guy's and gal's home before one more needless and useless injury or death.

John McCain has always been a very scary guy for me. He is reputed to be a principled man, driven by deep extra-political convictions, who sees the world as a battlefield between good and evil and who believes in military solutions. Bush is less scary because he and his people are phony profiteers and military incompetents. Imagine a president with Bush's stubborn ruthlessness and McCain's sincere convictions and military experience. Bush's dishonesty is his Achilles heel. But McCain might not be a fake. His genuine earnestness and belligerent integrity, as much as they may be respected as personal qualities, should be our worst nightmare.

"Richard….I'm hoping you are wrong and we don't have Imperial goals. We haven't demonstrated any Imperailism in modern times yet, lets not!"

What was the Spanish American War? Vietnam? Chile? Guatemala? The overthrow of a secular Democratic government in Iran in 1953 and the istallation of a dictator. Support for Suhkarno, Marcos, The Saudi thugs, Israel. Nicaraghua, El Salvador.

The murder of Lumumba and the installation of Mobutu who killed some 2 million people.

These are just a few imperialist ventures.

Richard

Its specifically unclear that we had other than a moral responsibility for Lumumba, so I can't say. But the actual event would be more Belgian I would think.

As to the others, Nam, Clile, etc. ....Imperialism means taking territory and keeping it to me. I know some would say its also trying to exert your power over other countries, in school it was referred to as "New Imperialism"

All countries try to exert their trade and political power over others, so I would use the gaining of territory to define Imperialism. But I take your point in general.

Unfortunately, sometimes people that shouldn't have control of our country, get control. ( present case in point! ) So far, in spite all our faults and as you rightly point out..........they are many! we're still the best the world has produced so far. If we can restore our republic to credibility and honesty maybe we can get back to helping people as we should.

Thomas More April 11th, 2007 2:42 pm

""I believe McCain to be a genuine war hero for enduring torture and refusing release because others had been in prison longer than he had.""

Glad you brought that up.

No one IMO is a hero because they were unlucky enough the be captured and held by the enemy as a POW. It is their actions while a POW that makes them someone to either feel sad for because of what they went through, or respected as a hero because of their actions while they were in captivity. What does set McCain apart is that he was offered release when the North Vietnamese found out his father was an Admiral and he refused. McCain's refusal of special treatment is what set him apart and made him a hero.

That being said, McCain has apparently sold his soul to become president and in doing so has lost a lot of the respect I had for him.

As for his stance on the war. I honestly believe that he believes that the Iraq war can be won. I have just as strong a belief that it can't.

Lobo Gris

The Gray Wolf has it right. McCain showed strength and courage matched by few when he was incarcerated, especially when he could have gone free. There aren't a whole lot of people that could demonstrate that amount of character.

This brings up the problem of where John McCain went astray. When I live in Phoenix, he was venerated. Now I see those same people shrink away, shaking their heads over the pitiful change that has come over him. Unfortunately for what he has done, he is now a nobody, something I hate to say, but am constrained to say it. Goodbye ex-Mr. Hero.

One can be both a war criminal and a courageous POW, and McCain may or may not fit the bill on both counts. I prefer to reserve the term "war criminal" for the likes of Kissinger, McNamara, and Rumsfeld.

I actually admired aspects of McCain's character and record for a time. He has seriously considered campaign finance reform and even the threat of global warming, for example, so he has, on occasion, stepped outside the Republican box. At one time he even dared to challenge religious maniacs such as Falwell and Robertson who dominate the Republican Party.

After watching his family trashed by Bush and Rove in the 2000 primaries, McCain had the opportunity to demonstrate his principles—and heroism—by opposing these loathsome chickenhawk punks. Instead, he crawled back to lick their boots, knowing that this was the surest path to power.

Now he scurries around the country seeking approbation from the religious maniacs destroying the Republic; he knows he will need their blessings to reach the pinnacle of power.

Finally, in his mania to expand the war in Iraq until Mesopotamia is flooded with blood, the man has become an Ahab, deranged and dangerous.

One can only hope his recently staged Orwellian farce in a Baghdad market will permanently strangle his political ambitions. We cannot afford another delusional monomaniac occupying the White House.

"Unfortunately, sometimes people that shouldn't have control of our country, get control. ( present case in point! ) So far, in spite all our faults and as you rightly point out……….they are many! we're still the best the world has produced so far. If we can restore our republic to credibility and honesty maybe we can get back to helping people as we should."

The best? Credibility? Honesty? Get back to helping people?

America does not stand for these things except in the minds of some Americans. I'm sorry, but after your comment about lack of imperial ambition and then these examples of something other than reality, I really do have to suggest that you take a good look at the world and America's role in it.

Malfeasance upon malfeasance. Any help has been slow, inadequate and only as a response to domestic outrage. And please don't tell me the US is the biggest aid donor in the world. It isn't by any way you want to measure it.

"C9ould McCain be a potential Manchurian Candidate?–oh silly me all the front runners in both major parties are Manchurian candidates!"

Ha, ha, Poet, more like 'Manichean' candidates, although they are really more Machiavellian than anything else.

McCain has said he would rather support Bush's half-witted surge in Iraq hoping vainly for victory, than win his campaign for the GOP presidential nomination. At the rate he's dropping in the polls, I don't think it will be hard to accommodate his wishes.

Perhaps he's just old and tired and listening too much to his campaign advisors, most of whom trained under Mr. Rove.

Top Gun Johnny should have read Friedrich Nietzsche:

"Not necessity, not desire -- no, the love of power is the demon of men. Let them have everything -- health, food, a place to live, entertainment -- they are and remain unhappy and low-spirited: for the demon waits and waits and will be satisfied."

Only McCain's demon will not be satisfied as he's never going to be president.

"..........a genuine war hero.........."!!!!!!
The despicable definition is enough proof of the writer's linkage and respect for reality. McCain, like the other Fascist Nazi US war criminals in IndoChina and everywhere else, is and will always be a bloodthirsty convict, no matter what the narssisistic Yanks think of themselves.