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Rebel Farmer April 9th, 2007 11:54 am

"To Lobo and Exdem, I agree that the Dems need to get the message loud and clear that they can no longer take the people of this nation that want true representation for granted anymore. I would add, however, that I think you can make a louder statement by voting in the primaries for Kucinich. Then, when the Dems nominate a bought and paid for hack as their candidate for Prez, change parties. After voting for Kucinich, then let the DNC et al know that they do not represent you and that you can no longer support them."

I don't have any problem with voting for Kucinich in the primary, ours are open regardless of party registration, however by the time we get to vote the primaries are over and the nomination has already been sewn up.

Lobo Gris

exdem April 9th, 2007 10:24 am

"Yes, Lobo Gris, you are so right. Did you go to Dave Lindorff's web site to register that you have left the Democratic party?"

Yes I have. Thanks! Mabe others will follow the link and do the same.

Lobo Gris

Stop Fast Track now!!!!

Rebel Farmer April 9th, 2007 12:01 pm

"And the place to start to stop the free trade agreements is to STOP FAST TRACK with is up for renewal right now. Senator Baucus (D) from Montana is your target here. His own State legislature passed a resolution to tell him that fast track is "off the table". That doesn't seem to be stopping him though."

No surpise there, Rebel. Just look at his track record when it comes to voting on bills that favor corporations over people. For many years he has voted like a Repuplican.

If you can locate the scoring and grading records of the House and Senate at the Drum Major Institute http://www.drummajorinstitute.org/
you can see his past voting record on many important issues.

Gail - right on! I would add again though that you have to let your voice be heard by the Repugs too.

And the place to start to stop the free trade agreements is to STOP FAST TRACK with is up for renewal right now. Senator Baucus (D) from Montana is your target here. His own State legislature passed a resolution to tell him that fast track is "off the table". That doesn't seem to be stopping him though. So, write every senator you can think of and get them to renounce Baucus' push to renew Fast Track Trade Treaties!

I agree! Call, write, e-mail your "reps" in Congress. ALL of them, Repug and Dem! If Oregonians could get Senator Gordon Smith to turn around, anything can happen. And we did! It was a first step anyway.

To Lobo and Exdem, I agree that the Dems need to get the message loud and clear that they can no longer take the people of this nation that want true representation for granted anymore. I would add, however, that I think you can make a louder statement by voting in the primaries for Kucinich. Then, when the Dems nominate a bought and paid for hack as their candidate for Prez, change parties. After voting for Kucinich, then let the DNC et al know that they do not represent you and that you can no longer support them.

mjtrac April 8th, 2007 9:53 pm

"The most powerful voice a Democratic representative can hear right now is one saying "I support you now because you may be our only way out of this mess, but I'll support you EVEN MORE if you turn out to have been worthy of hope."

They will get my support by doing two things: GET US OUT OF IRAQ and FIX THE BOGUS WTO FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS that are responsible for the loss of good paying jobs and the undermining of American sovereignty.

Under WTO FREE TRADE AGREEMENT RULES, the Constiution of the United States and Bill of Rights take a back seat to the demands of multi-national corporations.

If Democrats don't engage in debate and discussion on these UN-sound economic policies, there is no reason for them to believe they are "worthy" of our hope.

The Iraq War and Economic Policy are two most critical issues of out time!

Yes, Lobo Gris, you are so right. Did you go to Dave Lindorff's web site to register that you have left the Democratic party? www.thiscantbehappening.net Look for his piece called "I Quit" where he is asking people to inform the DNC, DCCC, DSCC, Pelosi, and your own dem representatives, that you are quitting the party until they start acting like Democrats (you remember them -- the ones who passed the Civil Rights Acts, Voting Rights Acts, REAL antiwar legislation, not to mention the impeachment of a criminal president). If he gets a huge response, he's going to take it to the coporate media and to Howard Dean, etc. I know, it's more than a little quixotic, but somehow we haave to let the Party know that they cannot take our votes for granted anymore or they won't go back to acting like real Democrats - it's so much easier to be Reublican-lite....

mjtrac said "Nader's argument that the Democrats and Republicans were tweedledee and tweedledum has melted in the face of the Bush administration. Tweedledum turned out to be dumber and more frightening that I'd ever imagined possible." Basically what you are saying is that violence (Republicans) is more heinous than apathy (Democrats). Each are equally reprehensible and serve to achieve the same end. The reality is that both Parties take their campaign money from the same group of K Street lobbyists. The lobbyists all work for the same group of corporate war mongers. Until we take away the ability for our government to be purchased one seat and bench at a time we will continue to receive the same type of profit driven self absorbed egotists that come from the same institutions. Let's not forget that Bush and Kerry are frat brothers at the end of the day. Any wonder why Kerry refused to demand recounts in FL, GA and OH where all the vote counts were suspect? So in short, Lobo Gris is right - why would we vote for either of these groups of people? the good news is that Barack Obama - while still running under the Dem ticket is getting all of his money outside of the usual party connections which are currently locked up with Hillary. stay awake folks and follow the money... the source will tell you who the owners of the politician is...

mjtrac April 8th, 2007 9:53 pm

"Every time someone says there's no difference between voting Democratic or Republican, it's like voting for another four years of Bush. Every time someone proposes a third party on the left, it's like voting for another four years of Cheney."

No, everytime someone moves to a third party as I have just done it tells the Democrats you are not representing me and if you want to win elections you better rediscover your base and start supporting them, not with campaign slogans but with actions. As long as the Democrats can count on our votes simply because they are the lesser of two evils we will continue to get just that. And you know what? The lesser of two evils is still evil.

Do you know what the Democrats said to all of us when Bush admitted violating the 1978 FISA act and the 4th amendment to the Constitution and Pelosi took impeachment off the table? They said Bush spying on you isn't important enough for us to do anything about it.

Now why would I want to vote for anyone who considers me that unimportant?

Lobo Gris

What's shocking is that 39% still DIDN'T WANT TO WITHDRAW.

My mother, a moderate Republican who never supported the invasion of Iraq & really hates W with a fiery passion -- more than her mom hated Nixon -- talked to a relative who lives near D.C., someone she only calls on holidays, and she loves B.O.Reilly & expressed some sympathy for W before my mom switched the conversation to less volatile topics.

For all the Democratic failures, remember that the Blue Dogs took over under Clinton & that the progressives had to battle both them & the totally unscrupulous Reptilicans who came to power under Gingrich & mushroomed under the Dim Son. The social & political wreckage from being slammed by these slime-lords is worse than that brought on by Katrina.

The Democrats once again are poised to cave in to Bush and remove their "non-binding" timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. What more evidence do we need to know that our government is not of or for the people? As to petitioning one's supposed representatives, no member of congress has ever responded to anything I have written to him or her, and I doubt they respond to anyone else either. We need a third party led by someone with strength as well as integrity and honesty, but perhaps that's too much to ask.

Proud lib: I'm with you. I'll never give in to these damn republican's. I write letters to congressmen&women also to the newspaper telling them how I feel. It may not do any good but I'm sure as hell not going to do nothing while these criminal's destroy our constitution and way of life

Thank you dinelson7

Don't give up. Call a Congressman or a Senator a day. I can't guarantee it will do any good, but I can guarantee not doing anything will do nothing. At least if the US goes under, some us will know that we fought back.

It's time Reps and Sens understand that if they can share equal sides of the occupation-withdrawl argument regardless of party-affiliation then so can voters

Never mind all the other important issues . Zero in on the occupation-withdrawl position . Question : Will you propose an immediate bill and support an existing bill to immediately cut funding for continued occupation in Iraq ? Yes or No ? Yes,you have my vote ; No, you lost muy vote.

We are bi-partisan Americans.

Americans,get off your superbowled and americanidolized asses and do something consequential instead of whining and answering polls. Do your own unsolicited poll to your Congressman/woman.

Failure has always been an orphan. Not so long ago the media was awash with American hubris and vitriol especially against countries such as: France and Germany which opposed the illegal and unjust war.

Now that Americans are facing a conundrum: declining world relevance, a declining economy and prosecuting an illegal and unjust war that has no foreseeable end in sight, they have begun turning on each other to allocate blame.

Funds spent on a stupid war would have been better spent addressing health insurance and the mostly ignored Katrina disaster. Does America expect China to support the flagging dollar indefinitely so that it can continue waging this silly war on behalf of Cheney and Halliburton? NO! Everything in life comes at a price.

Hilarious, is it not! Oh!for that old adage -"How are the mighty fallen"

The same could be said about most Democrats. It's not about which party to blame -- they are both guilty. Unortunately what the candidates say during the election is often forgotten the day after. The only Dem that can be trusted to end this debale is Kucinich. Should Clinton be handed the nomination, we need an alternative.

While it's true that the war isn't going to stop until we have a change in the White House (and as we complain about how the Congressional Democrats are or aren't handling this, remember this: It'll be the GOPers' spin about it that'll dominate the airwaves, not ours), frankly stories like this one are starting to annoy me. We've got to stop acting like the opinions of the Republicans are still the operating ones. Oh, so as these Republican caucus-goers prepare to choose among candidates that promise to keep the war going, we're supposed to care that even they are supposedly "for" withdrawing the troops? Yeah, right - they're for withdrawal after we "win", whatever the hell that means. The Republicans are losing support, have already lost the argument before they lost the Congress and it's time we stop acting like they still matter. My message to the sudden conversion of the Republican 'peaceniks' is twofold: Where were you when it counted and (as their Dear Leader Bush once said) who cares what YOU think?

Don't give up. Call a Congressman or a Senator a day. I can't guarantee it will do any good, but I can guarantee not doing anything will do nothing. At least if the US goes under, some us will know that we fought back.

i agree with mjtrac. we need to support the dems and push them to work for us. creating tiny parties with no hope of winning anything just makes more votes for the busheviks

"revoltnow" said: "I'm afraid it doesn't really matter anymore what any of us wants."

Dear revoltnow,

No, the Democrats are not instantly doing what you (and I, and probably most of commondreams readers) would like. They are engaging in politics --"the art of the possible."

Eight years ago, I voted for Nader. Because I live in California, it was a safe vote for me. But Nader's argument that the Democrats and Republicans were tweedledee and tweedledum has melted in the face of the Bush administration. Tweedledum turned out to be dumber and more frightening that I'd ever imagined possible.

Every time someone says there's no difference between voting Democratic or Republican, it's like voting for another four years of Bush. Every time someone proposes a third party on the left, it's like voting for another four years of Cheney.

Yes, keep pressure on the Democrats to move in the correct direction. But please don't decide our voices don't matter just because the Democrats are forced to compromise -- thank them for compromising, so that they can gradually push things our way.

The most powerful voice a Democratic representative can hear right now is one saying "I support you now because you may be our only way out of this mess, but I'll support you EVEN MORE if you turn out to have been worthy of hope."

I'm afraid it doesn't really matter anymore what any of us wants. Levin has already said they won't stop funding for this war.
Once there were some humble but brave people who dared to dream of forming this country in freedom. "No Taxation Without Representation" was a rallying cry. Well, April 15 is right around the corner and we have no real representation.
I'm so discouraged I'm ready to just give up. Nothing's changed, it just keeps getting worse and worse.

Yeah, proudlib is right; they can go f*** themselves after voting back in a president just because he was pro-murder and promised to add homophobic language to the constitution. I bet in 2,100 those same people will poll as 59% of them believing that something serious should be done about global warming, after half the planet's population is already dead and the other half drowning, freezing, or burning.

I personally find it absurd and seriously frightening that we now are supposed to feel grateful for the Democrats as opposed to the FASCISTS who have been running this country for the past 6 years. No shit that it makes the likes of Pelosi and company seem mighty damned good by comparison, but frankly, that is not saying much under the circumstances. Let's dream BIG, damn it! We are getting the governmnet we "settle for," and I for one, am so tired of it! I have a grandson and perhaps if we progressives work hard we can actually leave our grandkids a country that really is of,by, and for the people.