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What If Iran Had Invaded Mexico? Putting the Iran Crisis in Context
Unsurprisingly, George W. Bush's announcement of a "surge" in Iraq came despite the firm opposition to any such move of Americans and the even stronger opposition of the (thoroughly irrelevant) Iraqis. It was accompanied by ominous official leaks and statements -- from Washington and Baghdad -- about how Iranian intervention in Iraq was aimed at disrupting our mission to gain victory, an aim which is (by definition) noble. What then followed was a solemn debate about whether serial numbers on advanced roadside bombs (IEDs) were really traceable to Iran; and, if so, to that country's Revolutionary Guards or to some even higher authority.
This "debate" is a typical illustration of a primary principle of sophisticated propaganda. In crude and brutal societies, the Party Line is publicly proclaimed and must be obeyed -- or else. What you actually believe is your own business and of far less concern. In societies where the state has lost the capacity to control by force, the Party Line is simply presupposed; then, vigorous debate is encouraged within the limits imposed by unstated doctrinal orthodoxy. The cruder of the two systems leads, naturally enough, to disbelief; the sophisticated variant gives an impression of openness and freedom, and so far more effectively serves to instill the Party Line. It becomes beyond question, beyond thought itself, like the air we breathe.
The debate over Iranian interference in Iraq proceeds without ridicule on the assumption that the United States owns the world. We did not, for example, engage in a similar debate in the 1980s about whether the U.S. was interfering in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan, and I doubt that Pravda, probably recognizing the absurdity of the situation, sank to outrage about that fact (which American officials and our media, in any case, made no effort to conceal). Perhaps the official Nazi press also featured solemn debates about whether the Allies were interfering in sovereign Vichy France, though if so, sane people would then have collapsed in ridicule.
In this case, however, even ridicule -- notably absent -- would not suffice, because the charges against Iran are part of a drumbeat of pronouncements meant to mobilize support for escalation in Iraq and for an attack on Iran, the "source of the problem." The world is aghast at the possibility. Even in neighboring Sunni states, no friends of Iran, majorities, when asked, favor a nuclear-armed Iran over any military action against that country. From what limited information we have, it appears that significant parts of the U.S. military and intelligence communities are opposed to such an attack, along with almost the entire world, even more so than when the Bush administration and Tony Blair's Britain invaded Iraq, defying enormous popular opposition worldwide.
"The Iran Effect"
The results of an attack on Iran could be horrendous. After all, according to a recent study of "the Iraq effect" by terrorism specialists Peter Bergen and Paul Cruickshank, using government and Rand Corporation data, the Iraq invasion has already led to a seven-fold increase in terror. The "Iran effect" would probably be far more severe and long-lasting. British military historian Corelli Barnett speaks for many when he warns that "an attack on Iran would effectively launch World War III."
What are the plans of the increasingly desperate clique that narrowly holds political power in the U.S.? We cannot know. Such state planning is, of course, kept secret in the interests of "security." Review of the declassified record reveals that there is considerable merit in that claim -- though only if we understand "security" to mean the security of the Bush administration against their domestic enemy, the population in whose name they act.
Even if the White House clique is not planning war, naval deployments, support for secessionist movements and acts of terror within Iran, and other provocations could easily lead to an accidental war. Congressional resolutions would not provide much of a barrier. They invariably permit "national security" exemptions, opening holes wide enough for the several aircraft-carrier battle groups soon to be in the Persian Gulf to pass through -- as long as an unscrupulous leadership issues proclamations of doom (as Condoleezza Rice did with those "mushroom clouds" over American cities back in 2002). And the concocting of the sorts of incidents that "justify" such attacks is a familiar practice. Even the worst monsters feel the need for such justification and adopt the device: Hitler's defense of innocent Germany from the "wild terror" of the Poles in 1939, after they had rejected his wise and generous proposals for peace, is but one example.
The most effective barrier to a White House decision to launch a war is the kind of organized popular opposition that frightened the political-military leadership enough in 1968 that they were reluctant to send more troops to Vietnam -- fearing, we learned from the Pentagon Papers, that they might need them for civil-disorder control.
Doubtless Iran's government merits harsh condemnation, including for its recent actions that have inflamed the crisis. It is, however, useful to ask how we would act if Iran had invaded and occupied Canada and Mexico and was arresting U.S. government representatives there on the grounds that they were resisting the Iranian occupation (called "liberation," of course). Imagine as well that Iran was deploying massive naval forces in the Caribbean and issuing credible threats to launch a wave of attacks against a vast range of sites -- nuclear and otherwise -- in the United States, if the U.S. government did not immediately terminate all its nuclear energy programs (and, naturally, dismantle all its nuclear weapons). Suppose that all of this happened after Iran had overthrown the government of the U.S. and installed a vicious tyrant (as the US did to Iran in 1953), then later supported a Russian invasion of the U.S. that killed millions of people (just as the U.S. supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iran in 1980, killing hundreds of thousands of Iranians, a figure comparable to millions of Americans). Would we watch quietly?
It is easy to understand an observation by one of Israel's leading military historians, Martin van Creveld. After the U.S. invaded Iraq, knowing it to be defenseless, he noted, "Had the Iranians not tried to build nuclear weapons, they would be crazy."
Surely no sane person wants Iran (or any nation) to develop nuclear weapons. A reasonable resolution of the present crisis would permit Iran to develop nuclear energy, in accord with its rights under the Non-Proliferation Treaty, but not nuclear weapons. Is that outcome feasible? It would be, given one condition: that the U.S. and Iran were functioning democratic societies in which public opinion had a significant impact on public policy.
As it happens, this solution has overwhelming support among Iranians and Americans, who generally are in agreement on nuclear issues. The Iranian-American consensus includes the complete elimination of nuclear weapons everywhere (82% of Americans); if that cannot yet be achieved because of elite opposition, then at least a "nuclear-weapons-free zone in the Middle East that would include both Islamic countries and Israel" (71% of Americans). Seventy-five percent of Americans prefer building better relations with Iran to threats of force. In brief, if public opinion were to have a significant influence on state policy in the U.S. and Iran, resolution of the crisis might be at hand, along with much more far-reaching solutions to the global nuclear conundrum.
Promoting Democracy -- at Home
These facts suggest a possible way to prevent the current crisis from exploding, perhaps even into some version of World War III. That awesome threat might be averted by pursuing a familiar proposal: democracy promotion -- this time at home, where it is badly needed. Democracy promotion at home is certainly feasible and, although we cannot carry out such a project directly in Iran, we could act to improve the prospects of the courageous reformers and oppositionists who are seeking to achieve just that. Among such figures who are, or should be, well-known, would be Saeed Hajjarian, Nobel laureate Shirin Ebadi, and Akbar Ganji, as well as those who, as usual, remain nameless, among them labor activists about whom we hear very little; those who publish the Iranian Workers Bulletin may be a case in point.
We can best improve the prospects for democracy promotion in Iran by sharply reversing state policy here so that it reflects popular opinion. That would entail ceasing to make the regular threats that are a gift to Iranian hardliners. These are bitterly condemned by Iranians truly concerned with democracy promotion (unlike those "supporters" who flaunt democracy slogans in the West and are lauded as grand "idealists" despite their clear record of visceral hatred for democracy).
Democracy promotion in the United States could have far broader consequences. In Iraq, for instance, a firm timetable for withdrawal would be initiated at once, or very soon, in accord with the will of the overwhelming majority of Iraqis and a significant majority of Americans. Federal budget priorities would be virtually reversed. Where spending is rising, as in military supplemental bills to conduct the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would sharply decline. Where spending is steady or declining (health, education, job training, the promotion of energy conservation and renewable energy sources, veterans benefits, funding for the UN and UN peacekeeping operations, and so on), it would sharply increase. Bush's tax cuts for people with incomes over $200,000 a year would be immediately rescinded.
The U.S. would have adopted a national health-care system long ago, rejecting the privatized system that sports twice the per-capita costs found in similar societies and some of the worst outcomes in the industrial world. It would have rejected what is widely regarded by those who pay attention as a "fiscal train wreck" in-the-making. The U.S. would have ratified the Kyoto Protocol to reduce carbon-dioxide emissions and undertaken still stronger measures to protect the environment. It would allow the UN to take the lead in international crises, including in Iraq. After all, according to opinion polls, since shortly after the 2003 invasion, a large majority of Americans have wanted the UN to take charge of political transformation, economic reconstruction, and civil order in that land.
If public opinion mattered, the U.S. would accept UN Charter restrictions on the use of force, contrary to a bipartisan consensus that this country, alone, has the right to resort to violence in response to potential threats, real or imagined, including threats to our access to markets and resources. The U.S. (along with others) would abandon the Security Council veto and accept majority opinion even when in opposition to it. The UN would be allowed to regulate arms sales; while the U.S. would cut back on such sales and urge other countries to do so, which would be a major contribution to reducing large-scale violence in the world. Terror would be dealt with through diplomatic and economic measures, not force, in accord with the judgment of most specialists on the topic but again in diametric opposition to present-day policy.
Furthermore, if public opinion influenced policy, the U.S. would have diplomatic relations with Cuba, benefiting the people of both countries (and, incidentally, U.S. agribusiness, energy corporations, and others), instead of standing virtually alone in the world in imposing an embargo (joined only by Israel, the Republic of Palau, and the Marshall Islands). Washington would join the broad international consensus on a two-state settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict, which (with Israel) it has blocked for 30 years -- with scattered and temporary exceptions -- and which it still blocks in word, and more importantly in deed, despite fraudulent claims of its commitment to diplomacy. The U.S. would also equalize aid to Israel and Palestine, cutting off aid to either party that rejected the international consensus.
Evidence on these matters is reviewed in my book Failed States as well as in The Foreign Policy Disconnect by Benjamin Page (with Marshall Bouton), which also provides extensive evidence that public opinion on foreign (and probably domestic) policy issues tends to be coherent and consistent over long periods. Studies of public opinion have to be regarded with caution, but they are certainly highly suggestive.
Democracy promotion at home, while no panacea, would be a useful step towards helping our own country become a "responsible stakeholder" in the international order (to adopt the term used for adversaries), instead of being an object of fear and dislike throughout much of the world. Apart from being a value in itself, functioning democracy at home holds real promise for dealing constructively with many current problems, international and domestic, including those that literally threaten the survival of our species.




39 Comments so far
Show AllThe ruling class will always consider its interests as primary in foreign affairs. Rather than consideing public opinion, it seeks to shape it through propaganda. What they tell us is usually as close to the opposite of the truth as one can image, for instance we accuse Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran of supporting and exporting "terrorism" while in reality, it is the US which supports terrorism against Iran as well as against Cuba and Venezuela.
As many people have commented on Common Dreams, thank the non-existant god that it was not a gang of American sailors captured interfering with shipping in the Persian Gulf.
Already though we see the propagandists of the western world preparing the soil to plant another war. CNN, CBC, BBC etc are all carrying stories of the treatment of the British sailors. They were - shock! - blindfolded and - horror of horrors - kept separate from one another! Compare with Guantanamo. Compare with the British soldeirs who took children whom they suspected of looting and forcing them into the Euphrates - one was drowned. Other detainees in British care were simply beaten to death. Some cases came to court but the soldiers were acquitted.
But Iran is being painted as the bogey man of the Middle East for not having nuclear weapons and declaring their intention not to produce any. Israel with its nuclear arsenal, its succession of unstable prime ministers and its tendancy to invade someone else's country every ten minutes - are our friends. The argument that nuclear weapons only work in situations where both sides have them - that argument used throughout the cold war to justify the stockpiles of tnes of thousands of nukes - seems to have been forgotten by the USA. Surely, by the British/American argument we should give Iran nuclear weapons?
Noam Chomsky at his best as he is here I believe fulfills the famous lines of robert Burns (another poet!) when he said:
"Ah that there would be someone to give us
Eyes to see ourselves as others see us"
If there is anything sillier than US exceptionalism, (another name for manifest destiny) it is how many other peoples have made the same mistake and lived to see another group take over for them. Egypt, Persia, Greece, Babylon, Assyria, Rome, Spain. Portugal, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, India, China--when will we ever learn?
Different leaders and nations play by different rules.
The Bush-Cheney administration and their cronies seem to have many covert agendas, expanded and extended warfare being one of them.
These are dangerous times for Americans, in large part because of the leadership of the Bush-Cheney administration.
Food for thought at:
"Will Bush, Cheney attack Iran? When and why?"
PopulistAmerica.com
February 2, 2007
http://www.populistamerica.com/will_bush_cheney_attack_iran_when_and_why
- - -
"Military Draft Needed for War With Iran and Syria?"
PopulistAmerica.com
September 28, 2006
http://www.populistamerica.com/military_draft_needed_for_war_with_iran_and_syria
Every human group does it in some way. The belief that your group--however you define it(race, gender, species, religion, age, class, wealth, appearance etc) is superior in value to all other groups based upon a set of criteria conveniently determined by those who stand to benefit from the discrimination. It is always assumed to be an absolute truth.
I think the only way to combat it that hasnt been tried is to try and get them to prove their superiority as an absolute--which cant be done. For every why there is a because, and for every because there is another why. Maybe it can lead to some humility but who knows..
Of course Noam is a pillar of truth through documentation. Only one criticism here; How can he allude to the potential attack on Iran an "accidental war" when our every action provokes such a conflict? This is like saying that the formation of Sol was an accidental physical reaction.
Good work Naom!
******Folks, you have got to watch this Fox news clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPuGuaZTx8
O'Reilly is a fitting demonstration of how it all begins. The rise of Fascist Nationalism is exemplified in his exchange with Geraldo, as he fans the xenophobic flames of pliant, public sympathizers. O'Reilly drapes himself in the garb of Christian values, wraps himself in the flag of patriotism, and then uses his fanaticism to steer the warped minds of his fellow deacons and fascist priesthood. This wickedness should strike fear into any soul that is paying even a modicum of attention; to the invasion, to prisons, to rendition, and the border issue. What next, ethnic cleansing at home?
Let us not be completely blind to the fanatic religious ideologies that have taken the helm and maneuvered this ship of state into these turbulent waters from the very beginning. What is evident from the brief clip is only a small glimmering tip of the more pernicious body of iceberg that rests beneath the waves and it permeates the body politic.
The phrase, we didn't know, uttered by the Germans following WWII, was unacceptable then, and it certainly should be unacceptable now.
Peace, Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
Nice. Isn't O'Reilly due an on-air heart attack soon?
Great piece, Noam. It is impossible to gauge the full extent of US myopia and arrogance until you imagine what the US response would be to actions of another country that were similar to our own. I have used the analogy of Iran invading US neighbors when arguing with people over whether or not Iran poses a threat to the US. When put in this light, the actions of Iran suddenly become quite reasonable and not so easy to dismiss as "crazy" or "provocative" or needing to be "taught a lesson."
I don't know if it is our educational system, the incessant and pervasive propaganda of American exceptionalism to which we are all subject, post Cold War triumphalism, or a combination of all of these things that make us blind to our own selfish and brutal militarism. Until we can put ourselves in the place of the people who suffer as a result of our actions, then we will continue to be the greatest threat to world peace and security that most people in the world perceive us to be.
Great piece by Chomsky. However, while I am all for the public having a say in foreign policy, the thought is frightening with the media we now have.
An ignorant and brainwashed public cannot make correct decisions.
It is well known by all correctly educated Americans that Mexico, like the rest of the Western Hamisphere, is "our" backyard (Monroe Doctrine), and thus "we" would have every right to use all means to defend it. Besides, when "we" invade it's always a positive development (for democracy, stability, peace) because there is always a carefully demonized "threat" that must be eliminated. So scenarios such as Iran's hypothetical invasion of Mexico are inapposite to show flaws in the US propaganda line.
Part of the price the US paid for getting caught in the Iraq morass was that it "lost" much of its neo-liberal influence in South America to independent minded leftists like Chavez. Mexico was almost lost but for for the highly irregular election last year.
As always Mr. Chomsky, your arguments and suggestions on courses of action are completely rational. Any sober deliberation of your thoughts would only have agreement as a result.
I have read just about everything you have written (including your true job in linguistics) and I find that you never treat anyone with disrespect or better yet, ad hominum attacks. You simply point to the facts and ask others to come to their own conclusions. Naturally, you also give your own opinion. What I find about the conclusions you reach is that they are almost always right on the mark. When pre-emptive war was advocated by the Bush administration, as well as the use of torture redefined, you (I cant remember the exact words) said that this was not only a bad precedent, but would also allow other countries to follow suit and justify their own attacks on certain groups or countries. Not long after you said this, Russia was in Ukraine and Chechnya, killing and terrorizing the people there. China also was now able to do as it pleased with groups and areas on its Western borders. I'm sure there are more cases.
I know your enemies are many. I don't know how you have been able to survive as long as you have when I hear what some people say and think of you. But you continue to quietly go about your day, offending only those whose lies you uncover.
As a last word, you are truly one of the world's greatest intellectuals and I am fortunate to live during your time here. Otherwise, I would have to continue to rely on Immanuel Kant, William James, John Stuart Mill, Emerson, Thoreau and many others to indulge in some of the thinking of these great minds. Of course, they're all dead. I wish I was aware af more people who are alive today and able to capture and find the words for the difficult ideas they grappled with.
dear hybridoma
you got to look in the places where those folks were - thoreau was in a small town outside of boston and few knew his name - emerson was more popular but not a media star like webster -
visit my blog
http://pointdappui.blogspot.com/
or website http://thefulcrum.org
speaking of being unknown
What in the past has America done so wrong to deserve the likes of Bush, Cheney and their other warmongering brigands?
As night follow day, the country will certainly have to pay a high price for what these goons are now doing - all in the name of oil for Halliburton.
Dorian wonders:
What in the past has America done so wrong to deserve the likes of Bush, Cheney and their other warmongering brigands?
My own take on your very piquant and relevent question is:
We have tolerated the intolerant in the name of tolerance. They have systematically strangled the body politic which allowed them a seat at the table--(in "God's" name no less!
When we finally realize that in the name of self-defense it is not hypocritical for the rest of us to get as down and dierty with the provovateurs as they have done with us then we will have the leg up on them.
When under attack, the attacker determines your tactics and not your principles--lest your enemy use those principles to destroy you. Principles to them ar only a tactic to exploit those against whom they have sworn eternal emnity and unless or until we realize this we will always be at risk of facilitating our own destruction.
Noam Chomsky as usual,correct and to the heart of the matter...
A beautiful soul...
Nannie
The only problem I have with Professor Chomsky is that he's intelligent and logical when nobody else is, not the Iranians and certain not the Bush administration. Confined to its proper ivory tower, it's harmless; and in the real world, it's useless.
Love ya' Noam !
if one is wrong does not mean the others have the right to be wrong.
Be careful Mr Chomsky the regime of Iran is a criminal regime who has committed crimes against their own citizen. They want to be superpower in the middle east and spread their despotic regime every where. That is why they need to have atomic Bomb. They spent millions in Iraq to take over. They have put their own guys in key government post and yes they are killing Americans All that for hegemony and Survival plus rule of mullahs.
I am ashamed. You are wrong and you are not looking for the interest of Iranian people. that is racism. Why don't you criticize US aggressive war in Iraq instead of tying to defend Iran's mullahs. The left in US does not care about the people in Iran and I guess you are one of them.
I was just thinking recently along these lines regarding Iran. Thank you Noam Chomsky for writing this article. I can now use this as a reference in my political discussions.
Chomsky is brilliant and laser-on as usual. Since Americans are indoctrinated to assume that the U.S. rules the world, a dose of objectivity by Chomsky is great. In other countries, he is on national television. But here, in the supposed land of free speech, Chomsky is not allowed on network television. His thoughts might punture the propaganda bubble we live in. Sadly, the American people mostly cheer our imperialist empire. The world's most dangerous rogue outlaw nation is us.
laylaj: Where to start? First of all, Iran is not a monolithic state; secondly, they are in close proximity to India, Pakistan and Israel, all of whom have A-bombs; third, Herr Bush has identified them as part of the "Axis of Evil" and we saw what happened to Iraq unable to threaten this deterrent to invasion; fourth, in 1953 the Brits and U.S. CIA engineered the overthrow of the democratically elected presidency of Mosadegh - why? because he intended to nationalize Iran's oil industry, and then we installed the murderous Shah Reza Phalavi which sparked the fundamentalist backlash; lastly, Iran, after helping the U.S. dislodge the Taliban in Afghanistan now finds itself surrounded by Western armies on the land and by a staggering naval armada at sea. If in fact Iran intends to develop an atomic bomb there is much evidence that we are driving them to it.
I detest religious fundamentalism of any stripe, but there is much more going on here than the desire to convert the world to Islam.
BTW: "Stormin' Norman" Schwartzkopf (sp?) was involved in the coup in '53.
laylaj, if you read the article again be sure to find the parts about how we should be supporting democraitisng/reform groups in Iran instead of provoking hardline foreign policy reactions which lead to further crackdowns internally. (For How Foreign Policy also Leads to Internal Crackdowns see: USA after 9/11).
Specifically, Chomsky says, "We could act to improve the prospects of the courageous reformers and oppositionists who are seeking to achieve just that. Among such figures who are, or should be, well-known, would be Saeed Hajjarian, Nobel laureate Shirin Ebadi, and Akbar Ganji, as well as those who, as usual, remain nameless, among them labor activists about whom we hear very little; those who publish the Iranian Workers Bulletin may be a case in point."
Chomsky again offers a template of how things should work, as opposed to how they do work. At the end of the movie "Nixon", about the eponymous star of Watergate, the character of Nixon played by Anthony Hopkins stands alone in the White House portrait gallery at night, after he's resigned the presidency, staring at a painting of JFK. He tragically intones to the image of his former nemesis, "When they look at you, they see themselves as they should be, but when they look at me, they see themselves as they are."
Compared to Bush and Cheney, Nixon was JFK. When we look at Bush and Cheney, we see ourselves not as we should be, not as we are, but as we know in our hearts, and with every bone in our bodies, we are not. We are not tyrants and global bullies, we are not brutal dictators in some banana republic, we are not fear mongers and sabre rattlers, we are not hubristic imperialists masquerading as "the world's policeman", we are not narrow-minded fundamentalist reactionaries and bigots, railing against anyone in our society different than we are---most of us are not these soul-destroying things. Most of us want to emulate the best in JFK or Reagan or Carter or Ford, certainly FDR or Truman or Eisenhower. Most of us reject the hyprocrisy and venality of Nixon or Bush or Cheney, who's been more of a real president than any vice president in our history.
Most of us are heartsick at the transparent damage that's been done to our political system, our civil rights and to the fabric of our democracy by both parties, in the name of "homeland security", but especially by the toxic outcomes of one-party reactionary government these past seven years, and by a Congress that until recently had abdicated its role in that government due to its blind complicity in Bush's disastrous agenda.
We are better than this. We know it. We've simply got to gather the collective courage to make that clear to the world. The best way to do that is to elect someone who will be a global symbol of positive change and a standard for choosing the needs and welfare of humanity over the continuing destruction of war and suffering. That person is either John Edwards, my choice, or Barack Obama.
No other current candidate will send that message or stand for that tectonic shift in the direction of this nation. This is why the 2008 election may be the most critical in our history, and this is why we must come together as a people and assert the best angels of our nature. Anything less and we are on the slippery slope to extinction as a force for good in the world. We all know this is the truth. Can we fix it? This is what Chomsky is talking about.
stone cutter says "Anything less and we are on the slippery slope to extinction as a force for good in the world"
as if we ever were. ask the native americans - as k the west aFricans - ask the mountains and the rivers and the brown bears and the passenger pigeons -
ask the sky - ask john brown - or malcolm x or mlk or any of the thousands and thousands enslaved - ask chile, gautemala, iran, iraq, vietnam, the butcher of lyon -
ask mexico how they lost the southwest -
force for good?????
wake up, grow up, your sleepy childish dream, perhaps provoked by strong spell, is abetting the sixth great extinction - abandon the illusion and step into the warming sea.
Chomsky's ethical basis is the principle of universality. How do we adopt that? We could, for example, require each conversation on politics to be framed around the principe of universality. We could impose the condition for our employment that the boss adhere to the principle of universality. We could decline to do business where the principle is clearly violated. And we have to be vocal about the reasons why. But if we fail to apply the principle at the grass roots, then we allow inferior principles to take its place. Unfortunately, this has happened, and we see the consequences are not good.
aside to Vince Lawrence--You may be thinking of General Schwartzkopf's father (who had the same name as the architecht of Desert Shield/Storm and was an Army general in 1940).
The original Schwartzkopf was sent by FDR at the request of the British (who at that point were otherwise engaged trying to escape from Dunkirk and fighting the Battle of Britain)to try to figure out some way to defend Iranian Oil fields from an anticipated Nazi pincer movement from their Russian invasion force to the North and Rommel's Afrika Corps coming from the Southwest. The Schwartzkopf family has been up to its ears in the Middle East for two generations.
with due respect to Chomsky, this is a false argument. Same as saying what if the native indians had decided to exterminate the european settlers. Or - if the blacks had ensalve the whites.
Poet: Thank you! I relied on a reference in a piece posted here some time ago. This forum is great for correcting misinfomation, misconceptions, hubris, etc. Thanks again.
Chomsky correct as usual-but the all important issue is time.Ms an Mr United States Working stiff is in the hands of our rotten press. The coming attack against Iran will happen during what is left of the Bush time in office.With three or four aircraft carrier groups now in the Persian Gulf any day now the Tonkin Gulf incident - oops, excuse me, the Persian Gulf incident may happen giving the excuse to Lebanon-ize Iran and the feces hit the fan. The neo-cons and Bushies would prefer a Pearl Harbor like incident so the United States populace would back them despite the suffering the populace would then experience. If the people knew that they would start paying up to $10 a gallon for gasoline shortly after the bombing of Iran starts - Iran stops all exports of crude oil while Venezuela, Enron style develops problems and maintenance needs in its oil systems and drastically cuts its oil and gasoline exports (at no cost to Venezuela at the new, higher prices). If the U.S. populace knew now that their gasoline bills would triple when the first bomb hits Iran - then you would see he letters and phone calls pour in Senate and Congressional offices. Any ideas how to publicize this fact - bomb Iran = $10 gallon gasoline - to the U.S. people?
Iran's revolution is a natural consequence and result of the popular sentiment and will of the masses of Iran and now, it's more evident than ever, the overwhelming majority of the nation supports the government and its actions wholeheartedly, especially in the wake of enormous hypocrisy over the nuclear energy program. Its president's and other leaders'
popularity is simply unfathomable by materialist Western so-called standards. I am a living example, a Marxist in fact and sadly for you Imperialist supremacist, I'd support them and the movement (plus my country) to the end. Unlike Fascist stateless Persian-American panderers like "laylaj" who have sold themselves out for pennies, now spying, acting, testifying and blabbing against Iran's righteous ongoing battle against global vicious Imperialism led by the monstrous US/Brit Empire (the New Rome).
"..... Doubtless Iran's government merits harsh condemnation, including for its recent actions that have inflamed the crisis......." Why the condemnation, I would ask? For defending one's territorial and national integrity while YOU are the war criminals, invaders, and usurpers of two sovereign nations and genocidal butchers, torturers and rapists of their women and children??!!!
Chomski obviously proves the vanity and hubris of an arrogant Northern White "thinker" to the bone. Even though he deserves some praise, undoubtedly, he follows the same claims and baseless fabrications thrown at the Islamic Republic and its supporters by gutless, xenophobic, jingoistic, racist Yanks and Euros for two decades.
To "LaylaJ"
"'''Be careful Mr. Chomsky the regime of Iran is......"
As the revolution's leader Mr. Khomeini once stated in the early days: "Be angry w /us due to our revolution, honorable West, and Die of your anger".
Typical despicable retarded pandering and pimping for the criminal Empire and its bloodthirsty leaders and voters (they keep voting for the likes of Bush, Blair, Harper, Howard Chirac and Merkel, after all). You epitomize, KHAAEN, the very goals and targets of the glorious revolution in cutting off the US/Northern hands and kicking out treasonous, cultureless counter-revolutionary filth like you and thousands of others in Canada, US, and Europe. After all, a system and country that got rid of the likes of you, Jaasoose ajnabi va Kharaabkaare khaanebedoosh, cannot be bad.
That you are treated like an enemy in your "beloved West" due to racism against your cultural origin, and detested in Iran due to your treason and servitude for colonialism, YOU TRULY DESERVE. Kohsh baash dar khosh khedmatie este'emaare jenaayatkaare amreekaa.
Vince Lawrence & montemerrick....
Excellent responses!!!
Folks, this is the focus we need to keep and not get caught up in the conundrum of not being able to see the forest for the trees. It goes to the adage: I have seen the face of my enemy, and it is the reflection of me.
The Bush regime must be cracking the whip on their media hound dogs, as they continue howling venomous invective of demonization against the Iranians. Yesterday, CNN pulled one of those 'retired' generals out of moth-balls again, who began spewing insults against the Brits, criticizing their handling of the 15 captives, flat out calling them cowardly and despicable. I had to double check to make sure I wasn't on FOX. I couldn't believe the language falling out of this guy's mouth. Itchy trigger finger Bush is really trying to push this thing into escalation. I just hope the Iranian's continue to withstand this pressure, approaching it with wisdom and understanding, not caving, to let the world truly see who the real pit-bull here is.
Best Wishes and Hope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU
"LaylaJ"
Baraaye mozdoore este'emaar va jaasoose jaanie amreeka va engelees, shaayad heechgooneh mojaazaati kaafi nabaashad, vali Marg bar monaafegh va saltanati" hameesheh shoaare khoobi khaahad bood.
You are never gonna win Iran and never rule it and never even see it again. Sleep over that thought, mozdoor.
Yep, Kalia, way to smack down the world's most famous linguistic academic and political writer. All you say, Kalia, is that it is a false argument and don't say why. Chomsky is simply giving an example (Iran invading Mexico) to allow us to imagine what the US government response would be. It illustrates the restraint of Iran and the brinkmanship of the george w bush regime.
"Spiritual growth requires the acknowledgment of one's own need to grow. If we cannot make that acknowledgment, we have no option except to attempt to eradicate the evidence of our imperfection."
"...Strangely enough, evil people are often destructive because they are attempting to destroy evil. The problem is that they misplace the locus of the evil. Instead of destroying others they should be [transforming and healing] the sickness within themselves."
- M. Scott Peck
Peck is a psychiatrist who has gone out on a limb to examine the phenomenon of "human evil." In this book People of the Lie he proposes an 'evil' subtype of the narcissistic personality disorder.
In addition to the disowning of responsibility that characterizes all
personality disorders, such people would be distinguished by these traits:
"a) Consistent, destructive, scapegoating behavior that may often be quite subtle.
b) Excessive, albeit usually covert, intolerance to criticism and other forms of narcissistic injury.
c) Pronounced concern with a public image and self-image of respectability,
contributing to a stability of lifestyle but also to pretentiousness and denial of hateful feelings or vengeful motives.
d) intellectual deviousness, with an increased likelihood of a mild
schizophrenic-like disturbance of thinking at times of stress."
A few decades ago Erich Fromm had described this pattern of pathology as
'malignant narcissism.' Peck asserts, "Malignant narcissism is characterized by an unsubmitted will."
In contrast, says Peck, adults who are mentally healthy submit themselves to something higher, such as truth or love or
another ideal.
In a 2006 article entitled, "Self-Deception and Peck's Analysis of Evil,"
Tom Kubarych reflects:
"...All moral people subordinate their personal desires to something more
universal and important than their individual desire...when there is a
conflict between the truth and what they want to believe, moral people
accept the truth.
"For the malignant narcissist, it is the other way around: they do what they want, regardless of what is right or wrong; if there is a conflict between their fantasies and reality, it is reality that must give."
Sound familiar?
Excellent discussion. We may never know the true motives and schemes of decision makers until the lack of transparency and accountability have real repercussions. If this was to fall back on disgruntled leaders, they may surprise us all and create a conscience where none may have existed before. I think we all better take a deep breath and reflect on the end of the 2004 film The Day After Tomorrow. If you didn't see it, well, an unexpected ice age left a large part of the US population to become refugees in Mexico. When your leaders mistreat other countries, you better be careful because the tables will turn very quickly and power dynamics shift all the time. Curious thing about what happened to the President in that film...
I'm sure good democrats in Nazi Germany would have preferred a more democratic republic. But they didn't get one while Hitler was around.
Chomsky gives lots of substantive examples of how we are not a democratic republic because the opposite of what most people desire is what we are getting. Chomsky doesn't mention what could possibly cause this to change, and I don't have any idea of what that would be either.